They died for our Freedom

[dycer]

Why do people researching War Memorials,etc feel the need to post on the Forum individual thanks and why do members of the Forum,post personal messages of sympathy,and toil,to men whom lost their lives,whom they do not know and died far far removed from their birth place, growing up place and latterly employment place.

I'm sorry, the fact that Tommy may have been born in Grantchester,educated at the Town Secondary School.and moved to,through University or employment to a distant part of the Country,but felt the need to join the Forces,or been conscripted,in his Country's defence and lost his life defending his Country is immaterial.

They fought and died for an ideal,and surely their legacy is that we can question things that are happening in their Country rather than where they are buried,commemorated,etc.

George

[John_Hartley]

Possibly an interesting discussion you've started, George.

Before I carry on, I was drawn by the thread title. Did you intend it to be read as a statement or a question?

I take it that your question is directed towards those war memorial researchers who may make a "remembrance" post, usually on the anniversary of a man's death. It's something I generally don't do and, with numbers approaching 3000 researchees, I doubt if I'd have the time to do this (and certainly don't have the inclination). I can understand, however, that folk with smaller numbers might find it a focus for their remembrance (in the same way as the Forum's "Remembering Today" man is a focus for other members).

Or is it directed towards those other members who may respond to such a thread post? If it's this, then no doubt those who do it will respond to you. Perhaps they see it as the "the thing to do" or they see it more as an acknowledgment of the other member, rather than the man commemorated. Again, it's not something I generally do (nor, for that matter, do I normally respond on the various "new commemoration" threads that Terry D regularly starts, even though I am heavily involved with the In From The Cold Project).

Of course, whatever the reason for folk doing it, it's a harmless exercise.

John

[Ken Lees]

Isn't this a variation on last week's question, dycer?

One could equally ask, "Why do some people feel the need to post these questions?"

It certainly baffles me. We all have different motivations and all do our thing in different ways. I have enough diffculty understanding myself without concerning myself with why others do what they do.

[dycer]

John,Keith,

I recognise and appreciate John's research into his Home Town's WW1 Servicemen,and I will always recognise that for future Family Tree seekers his research will be "diamond".

Keith,

I am probably unlucky,in as much as I lost two Uncles in WW1.I would cringe,in embarrassment,if a WW1 researcher,of their particular Memorial,listed their dates of death,offered them to the Forum,and received messages of support,whom neither the researcher,nor the poster had any personal contact.

George

[AlanCurragh]

They fought and died for an ideal,and surely their legacy is that we can question things that are happening in their Country rather than where they are buried,commemorated,etc.

George

But, George, how else are they going to be remembered? Are you suggesting that we should all cease our research efforts?

I am very fortunate in that I did not lose a relative in the war, so instead I chose to research the boys of my old school. However, if I had lost someone, and found that a researcher had posted something about the service and death, and other people responded to that, I would certainly not cringe with embarrassment

Alan

[dycer]

Alan,

I know from other Forums' research when my Uncles enlisted in the TF pre-War but,having myself been at TA Camp I can well imagine what they got up to.

I have a relatively unusual Surname,but I see posts on other Forums from people with the same Surname trying to promote the Name and at the same time seek their roots.

Why,with my roots,should someone,who has no understanding of my Family interfere?

George

[River97]

George,

I have never posted a remembrance thread to a soldier on this forum, however I have replied to many.

I have written a local publication for my city council called 'Heroes Under Headstones - men and women beneath the Townsville War Cemetery' and I maintain two memorial websites dedicated to those who have fallen in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Why do I do it? Because I am a firm believer of my signature. If I can get just one more person to visit a War Cemetery, or leave a comment on a memorial page then I have succeeded. We do it because we care and because there is the obligation to not forget.

Cheers Andy.

[cockney tone]

George,

I often post on these 'remembering' threads, call me old fashioned but I think its just a mark of respect and common decency and although I have no family connection with them I personally thank them for the freedom that I enjoy! It may be corny, but hey, thats me!

In my opinion one of the strengths of this Forum is remembering the sacrifice of these men and women! I will continue to post my gratitude, I appreciate your points George and may i suggest if these posts 'get your goat' don't read them!

Regards and best wishes one and all,

Scottie.

[welshdoc]

Cant see what the issue is. If we want to research a person and leave a little memorial to them online or in print, surely thats a good thing.

[Steven Broomfield]

I recently posted a thread on an Indian Cavalry regiment's bicentenary because I felt (and feel) that the work of the Indian Army is often not remembered and understated.

Individual commemorations don't especially bother me. Neither do they often provoke me to respond.

[pier]

Well said Scottie i agree with you, I for one am proud to remember my Gt Granfather on this forum, and get so much support.

Carol

[Stephen Garnett]

Perhaps in 100 years time it will be the emotional and social trauma of the Great War that will be the main focus of study rather than the military and political. I suspect, as of yet, we have not escaped that trauma and the way we think and act is very much, still, a consequence of the events of 1914-1918.

Sometimes in my need to understand the Great War I pigeon-hole and forget the human consequences of what happened. I sometimes inwardly scoff at what I, at these moments, perceive as sentimentalism but in doing so I reduce the real significance of the War. Forgetting the sacrifices that were made and the immense sorrow they brought, whether or not through bereavement, injury or just being away from loved ones at home.

The realities that the war inflicted upon millions of people and in the way it did are still felt today. The names on the War Memorials are not some legionnary's name inscribed upon a stone tablet dug up and placed in a museum, they are, instead, people very much like us. Many things may have changed but these men were our grandfathers and great-grandfathers. Boy, do we make much of prehistoric 'ancestors' and places such as Stonehenge. Your typical CWGC cemetery or local memorial is just as complex and rich in human nature than sites such as these.

I'll finish with the words placed in the churchyard of St. Nicholas', Sturry, in 1917 alongiside their Roll of Honour: 'Is it nothing to you all ye who pass by'. I believe those words echo still and personal and public remembrance is both right and necessary, whether of those known or not.

Regards,

Stephen Garnett

[Ice Tiger]

.....the fact that Tommy may have been born in Grantchester,educated at the Town Secondary School.and moved to,through University or employment to a distant part of the Country,but felt the need to join the Forces,or been conscripted,in his Country's defence and lost his life defending his Country is immaterial.

George

None of this is "immaterial".

It all goes to serve as a reminder that each & every name is more than a collection of letters. Every one of them was a person with a life they gave away for us. You may not need reminding but others may.

Andy

[dycer]

Please let me be clear.

As I've stated, through accident of birth, I am closer to WW1 than many on the Forum.

I am not criticising the serious researcher who wishes to post details of his research on a given day, on the Forum.

I would,however,refer you to the daily recording,on the Forum,of a casualty.Occasionally a Colleague will post this name and add biographical details where this man has formed part of their research.I applaud these posts and the additional information that is revealed.

I do not,however, see posts on a daily basis remembering the sacrifice of the anonymous Names.

I am not suggesting that the Forum be filled with posts remembering these men's sacrifice other than the listing of their names,on a daily basis, but for consistencies sake is there not an argument that this should be done?

George

[CGM]

I am probably unlucky,in as much as I lost two Uncles in WW1.I would cringe,in embarrassment,if a WW1 researcher,of their particular Memorial,listed their dates of death,offered them to the Forum,and received messages of support,whom neither the researcher,nor the poster had any personal contact.

George

I was unsure exactly what I felt about this topic until I read this.This struck a chord with me.

My family didn't lose anyone in the GW but has members who fought. Their surviving very close relatives were born and brought up in an age when family business was kept private and if they saw their family member's name and details on the open internet they would be deeply shocked.

It's not an attitude I have, but understand their feelings about it.

In order to protect them from this I never post anything which they could accidently find on a search, and recognise as their family.

To answer the original question - I don't post on any of the remembrance threads but I read them and stop and think for a moment or two. It's good that I remember.

Regards

CGM

[1690philip]

Well I do reply and post remembrance posts because I feel it is the right thing to do and that is up to me and others. As Scottie rightly said if it annoys you so much do not read them. I think it is important to remember these Fallen Hero`s which I will continue to do so.

If remembrance posts annoy you, what about remembrance services such as remembrance Sunday were people join together to pay homage to the Fallen and what about the Meinn Gate Service were on occasions the names of the missing are read out in front of the majority there who has no knowledge of them? To me they are the same kind of reflection, Remembrance and gratitude. I respect your option but I do not agree with it.

If we all felt the way you do I think there would be no remembrance at all and what about the saying "THERE NAME FOREVERMORE"

LEST WE fORGET.

Phil

[John_Hartley]

Please let me be clear.

George

I'm still not sure if you are yet being, mate.

Is it the Forum's own "Remembering Today" feature to which you refer? Or to the posts by members who do their own regular "remembering thread"? Or both, or something else?

If you can be more precise, it'd probably help the discussion along. I suspect I may have more sympathy for your probable position than you might think

John

[dycer]

John et al,

The Remembering Today feature is the clear example.

As we know the names are picked at random and if I can be allowed to respond to John directly I know on occasion you have added factual information e.g. education,pre-War employment and circumstances of death.I appreciate this additional information as,if you'll excuse the pun,it brings the man to life.

Often when a Researcher posts a Name,with or without factual information, further posters just acknowledge the man's sacrifice.These posts, I feel add nothing,to the original subject matter,however,well intentioned.and certainly, from my perspective,I would be embarrassed if one of my Uncles' Names appeared and strangers just celebrated his service and mourned his loss.Should their Names ever appear,however,I would be happy to post any factual information that the Thread originator may not be aware of.

Turning back to the Remembering Today feature.More often than not these Names appear and no comment is made,although I am sure we read the Name and mentally acknowledge his service.

If then, we are prepared to add non-factual personal comments to Names supplied by Forum Colleagues why do we not post non-factual personal comments to all the Names that appear on the Remembering Today feature?

I am not advocating such a practice.I am not well versed on the Forum capacity and whether,to my mind these spurious posts,could result in Forum restrictions.

George

[Gheluvelt]

I absolutely agree with Scottie, Phil and others.

As can be seen from my signature, I do have strong connections to WW1. It is due to the kindness and consideration of members of this forum, that I have managed to find out a great deal more about them, especially my Great Uncle with no known grave.

As a relative newcomer to this forum, I am still finding my way, and it is doubtful whether I can ever return the favour to others, (at least not at the moment). I will get more knowledgeable, and hopefully will be able to help future newbies.

I have no known connection with anyone else who served, but this care I believe, is the glue that helps bind this forum together, and if I can at least show my care and gratitude to others, then I will carry on. These men and women deserve to be remembered regardless of direct family connection.

As Scottie stated, if that's corny, count me in.

Regards,

Mike

[John_Hartley]

George

Thanks for posting the additional explanation and, yes, I do find myself in some general agreement with you.

Taking first the "Remembering Today" feature - it's the first thing I look at when I log on to the Forum each day. I look to see if the man served with a unit I have some knowledge of and, occasionally, I'll add something to his story. You'll no doubt recall that when it was first introduced, the posting of additional information about a man was almost the norm - certainly something posted more often than nothing posted. That doesnt happen so much - possible because of changing membership or, simply, that folk's interests have shifted and they no longer have the time. IIRC, it was intended as a focus for members' "remembrance" that day and I would have to wonder if it still serves that purpose and, if not, what purpose it does serve.

The other aspect you raise are the threads started by members as their own "remembering today". It may a family member or someone they have researched. No doubt the reasons for starting such threads are as varied as the thread starters themselves and they may be better able to explain why they choose to post, or not post, further biographical details of the men. As you note, other members will often add their own tribute along the "rest in peace" lines and their reasons for doing so will be as varied as the members themselves. I see it as a bit similar to the recent practice of laying flowers at the roadside near where someone, usually a stranger, has died in an accident. It's something I'd not choose to do, and I'm not sure why others do it, but it doesnt generally harm anyone if they do.

John

[truthergw]

I have no great interest in the human interest side of the war. I am interested in the politics, the strategy and the tactics. Probably the smallest unit in which I would take any interest would be a battalion. As it happens, both of my grandfathers lost their lives to the war. In the fullness of time, they were joined by their widows and then by their children. All of those aunts and uncles live in my memory but only until I die. Then my nephews and great nephews will carry my memory until they die and then I will be forgotten. It was ever thus. The attempt to perpetuate the memories of fallen soldiers seems to me to be an attempt to deny their deaths. The sometimes strident cries of 'not forgotten' and 'we shall remember them' seem to me to ring rather hollow. The oft repeated declaration that they were all heroes and we could never do what they did seems to me to fly in the face of common knowledge. I wonder if there is a tendency to remember an image which has little or no relation to the reality. I knew many men who had served in the Great War. In time, they died and I for one am content to let them rest in peace along with all the other people who have lived and died in the last ninety years and more.

[auchonvillerssomme]

I have absolutely no idea what the question is about....How can you be closer to world war one than many on here? unless you mean by age? I haven't ever seen anyone claiming those 'credentials' as a right to remember before. You either acknowledge or you don't, if you don't want to and/or don't feel the need to then fair comment.

Everyone should be allowed their own beliefs and a certain right to express them, after all isn't that the freedom we have fought for?

Mick

[aliecoco]

I have no great interest in the human interest side of the war.

I can't believe Dycer and this thread, and neither can I believe the above comment! Surely the men/women, having read so many accounts/service records/war diaries etc is what counts! It was 'their war, their time in life', and some of the comments I think, have no regard at all.

Alie.

[truthergw]

I have the same regard for all the men and women who came into the world, led their lives then passed on. I do not think those who happened to serve in one war out of the countless wars which the human race has fought are in any way different. I have as much regard for the countless innocents who have been victims of war, plagues and famines as for soldiers in the Great War.

[west coast]

no doubt there were many in the war who done heroic deeds above and beyond the call of duty, but my belief is that i look upon them as poor sods that went through different stages of pure hell, the vast majority who put their hand up to go 'before it was over' never had a clue as to what their fate could be and the horror of war.

mike.