Didn't find my grand uncle at NA/PRO

[curranl]

Hello All,

Made the pilgrimage to Kew, but sadly my Grand Uncle's (Mick Curran) service record does not survive. However, I did get his MIC and a copy of the medal rolls. I discovered that although he finished the war in the 2nd Royal Irish Fusiliers (No. 51929), he actually began in the 6th Royal Irish Rifles (No. 6155). This puts him firmly at Chunuk Bair, Gallipoli, on the 9th of August 1915, where most of his battalion were killed in an assault on a Turkish position.

I am assuming the remnants of the 6th were merged into the 2nd RIF and that he served with them until the end of the war. More research to be done, but I think that means he served in Salonika, Egypt/Palestine and possibly France.

One interesting point: although he was entitled to the three war medals, his family only have the 14-15 Star. His medal records say the Victory medal and British War medal were returned, (qqr K.R. 1923). Does anyone know why they would have been returned?

Regards,

Liam.

[Chris_Baker]

Hi Liam

There is an alternative scenario you might like to consider. The 6th Bn RI Rifles was disbanded in Egypt in May 1918. He may have been transferred then.

[trooper]

Hi Liam

The response from Chris is probably correct. The 2nd RIF joined the 10th (Irish) Division in November 1916 and remained after the division was "Indianised in May 1918. When the 6th Rifles were disbanded its members were probably transferred to other units, in the case of your grand uncle to the 2nd RIF. Other men may have been transferred to other battalions and went with them to France. It wouls appear though that the 2nd RIF remained in the middle-east and therefore it is unlikely that he saw service in France. I have the battalion history of the 6th RIRfs and will have a look to see if there is any mention of him there.

Trooper

[curranl]

Hi Chris and Trooper,

Thanks for your replies. I had't thought of that. I assumed that the remnants of the 6th RIR were transferred to the 2nd RIF shortly after the action in August 1915. I noticed in the Medal Roll that all the men on the same page as my grand uncle were originally 6th RIR and then went on to the 2nd RIF, but no dates are given.

I am waiting for a copy of "Orange, Green and Khaki" which seems to be the book everyone recommends for tracking down the dates and actions of the Irish Regiments, but we have a postal strike here at the moment and the book is stuck in a sorting office somewhere.

For anyone interested in the 10th (Irish) Division in Gallipoli, there is a book of that name, written by Bryan Cooper in 1917. Cooper was a major who served in Gallipoli. The book was reprinted in 2003 and is available from Irish Academic Press, ISBN 0-7165-2517-8

Trooper, please have a look through your material and let me know if you find anything.

Chris - well done on the website. It has made my search much easier. As we would say in Ireland, "Fair Dues!"

Regards,

Liam.

[Guest Ian Bowbrick]

Next time you go to Kew look up the war diary (WO 95 series). Although your great-uncle may not be mentioned by name, and having looked through the 2nd Bn Royal Irish Fusiliers diary for 1915 it is very unlikely, it will at least confirm the various geographical and numerical transfer of men.

Ian

[Desmond7]

Some info for 10th Irish Division people.

A Ballymena man's experience at the Dardanelles and Serbia

LANCE-Corporal Samuel Law, son of Mr. W. J. Law, Alfred Street, who is only 19, was formerly employed in the

Bradiwater Mill, and joined the army prior to the outbreak of war.

He was attached to the (censored) and sent to Dublin to complete his training. Subsequently, he was ordered to the

Dardanelles. Many and varied were the experiences he had there with the wily Turk.

On one occasion, his Division - almost certainly the 10th (Irish) Division - had to go without food for two days, as it

was difficult owing to the desperate way in which the Turks harassed them for the commiseriat to keep in touch.

From the Dardanelles, the battalion was sent to Serbia (the ill-fated Salonika expedition) to reinforce the French and

stem the tide which was sweeping the Serbians from their native land. Many were the hairbreadth escapes he came

through.

At times he thought his Division was lost, but they rallied and dealt some fine kncok-out blows to the

Bulgarian-German troops (Bulgaria had joined Germany, Austria and Turkey against the Allies).

Times without number they attacked and hoped to cary the day but at last the order came to withdraw and his

Division had to bear the brunt of covering the main army when retreating to Salonika. At length, when all was clear,

they were ordered to run for it:

"You should have seen us go," he writes. " Leaping to the parapet of our trenches we took to our beaters for the

hills, which we reached in safety. Then, under cover, we prepared to make ourselves comfortable and enjoy a

well-earned rest after our long spell in the trenches.”

"Our rest camp," he says, "is christened 'Devil's Hollow'. I haven't seen any white women for months on end. One

seems to be in th eheart of Africa. It is most depressing at times. One doesn't realise the exhilarating joy which comes

from seeing a white woman in these desolate and wild hills.

"More woman nurses are badly needed. I think they would only be too glad to make haste and offer their services

and come out to cheer us and make our lot a little brighter. You haven't seen our Division mentioned much in the

papers in the fighting in and around Serbia but I may tell you they were a credit to the (censored), for the way in

which they caried the burden of the last few days before leaving Salonika."

Young Law has so far come through without a scratch. He was a member of St. Patrick's Church and was in the

Boys' Brigade (CLB?) attached. He was also a member of Harryville Unionist Club.

Ballymena Observer, february 25 1916

[Desmond7]

And this ... I love Corporal Harry Hamilton below being with the 10th Irish!

Gallipoli toll rises

PRIVATE William Turtle of the 6th Btn RIR Springwell Street, Ballymena, who was wounded at the Dardanelles is

at present home on a short furlough. Private Turtle, who was an employee

of the Braidwater Spinning Company, joined the army about eight months ago and was at the front only about six

weeks when he was wounded. He was a popular member of the Springfield Football Club.

INTIMATION has been received by his parents residing at Garfield Place, Ballymena, that their son Private

Alexander Watson of the 6th RIR has been wounded at the Dardanelles.

Private Watson joined the colours at the outbreak of the war and proceeded to the front about six months ago. The

news to hand states that he has received a bullet wound in the ankle. A brother, Pte Samuel Watson is also serving

with the 6th RIR at the Dardanelles. In a letter home to his parents from the military hospital. Cottonenta, Malta, Pte

Sandy Watson says:-

"Just a few lines to let you know that I am wounded and in hospital. Johnny Turk got me all right with a shrapnel

bullet in the left leg, just above the ankle. I am being treated here all right and hope to be quite well soon. My brother

Sam was all right, the last time I saw him and as

for Johnny Turtle (Springwell Street), I heard he was wounded in the hand.

MR. Archibald Beattie, Galgorm Street, Ballymena, has been notified that his son, Private Archie Beattie of the 6th

Btn. Royal Irish Rifles has been wounded at the Dardanelles.

THE first Ulster Volunteer from Ballymena to enlist has been wounded. Mrs. Mary Hamilton, Springwell Street,

received the information from the war Office that her husband, Corporal

Harry Hamilton of the 6th Btn. Royal Irish Rifles has been dangerously wounded below the right ear. Corporal

Hamilton, who prior to the outbreak of war was employed as a sawyer by Messrs. J. Coleman and Co., Ballymena

listed for the Irish Rifles on August 10th, 1914.

He was a member of the Harryville Unionist Club and was connected with the Orange Order being attached to the

Dunfane Lodge.

[trooper]

Liam

According to the Regimental History covering the 6th RIRfs, in May 1918 the battalion, with the acception of battalion transport, was split up among other battalions of the Division, the majority going to 1st Leinsters. The transport was transferred to the divisional machine gun company. The bulk of the men would not therefore have gone to France as both the 2nd RIF and 1st Leinsters remained with the 10th Division in Palestine until the end of the war.

Trooper

[curranl]

Hello All,

Thanks for you replies. It looks like my man served in the Balkans and Egypt/Palestine, but never made the Western Front, contrary to family history! I have discovered that he was treated for malaria - possibly picked up in Salonika.

The question regarding the medals remains - does anyone know why the British War and Victory Medals would have been returned? While looking through the medal rolls, I noticed it was not unusual that these two were returned - there seemed to be an entry every second page saying they had been returned.

Here's another question - family history says he was given 600 acres of land in Australia when he demobilised. The story goes that this was an offer to ex-servicemen and helped the Crown to populate the colony (apologies to all Aussies!!). Can anyone verify that such a scheme existed?

Thanks for the responses so far!

Regards,

Liam.