Kevin Stillyards Posted 5 April , 2004 Share Posted 5 April , 2004 One of the men on my local Memorial I am reaserching was in the 363rd ForestryCoy. Was this unit made up from conscientious objectors as some non-combat units were. I can't find any information on this unit, has anyone got any ideas as to where I should be looking - or do you have details about this unit! kev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivor Lee Posted 6 April , 2004 Share Posted 6 April , 2004 Kev British conscientious objectors served in the Non Combatant Corps. As far as I am aware the Canadian Forestry Companies were not made up of conscientious objectors. However I am sure one of our Canadian Pals can confirm this. Have you had a look at the Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivor Lee Posted 6 April , 2004 Share Posted 6 April , 2004 Kev Sorry pressed the wrong key! What I was saying is have you looked at the Canadian War Diaries. These are available online at Canadian War Diaries One tip use a wild card search (e.g. $forest) as I do not think there is a specific Diary for 363 Company so you will need to look at higher level Diaries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ian Bowbrick Posted 6 April , 2004 Share Posted 6 April , 2004 Remember what happened to the Gunner who told a Labour Corps Soldier his unit were made up of concientious objectors.............. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will O'Brien Posted 6 April , 2004 Share Posted 6 April , 2004 Remember what happened to the Gunner who told a Labour Corps Soldier his unit were made up of concientious objectors.............. Ian..............Pray tell..............Did it involve being kicked in the unmentionables Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ian Bowbrick Posted 6 April , 2004 Share Posted 6 April , 2004 Will, Ivor put it on a recent thread - he punched him on the nose, knocking him down. When brought before his CO on a charge, he was congratulated...........never mess with a navvy, whether they are medical category B2 or C2. Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will O'Brien Posted 6 April , 2004 Share Posted 6 April , 2004 Will, Ivor put it on a recent thread - he punched him on the nose, knocking him down. When brought before his CO on a charge, he was congratulated...........never mess with a navvy, whether they are medical category B2 or C2. Ian Nuff said Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Stillyards Posted 6 April , 2004 Author Share Posted 6 April , 2004 Ooops, looks like i'd have got a punch in the face for suggesting he was a concientious objector. I'll know better next time! Why would a UK soldier end up being a driver in a Canadian unit? Was this common? kev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broznitsky Posted 7 April , 2004 Share Posted 7 April , 2004 Kev, as there were less than one hundred companies in the CFC, I am wondering where the 363 came from. I wonder if this is an error on the memorial. What is the man's name and any other details you have, please? How do you know he was a driver? I do not believe Canadian conscientious objectors served overseas. The CFC was composed of a variety of men from different sources; I have never heard of "conchies" being employed with the Corps. Peter in Vancouver Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broznitsky Posted 8 April , 2004 Share Posted 8 April , 2004 I have checked my sources; it seems clear that 363rd Coy, if it even existed, did not operate in France. As the Companies in Britain did not keep War Diaries, I can't check to see if any of them (about 43) might have been numbered 363. There must be some document that lists the Companies stationed around Carlisle, Egham, Southampton, and East Sheen in England, and Stirling and Inverness in Scotland. The Base Depot was at Windsor. Some of the men in France had been pulled from infantry battalions, and about 800 were given infantry training in 1918, in case of disaster. So the CFC in France can't be considered entirely non-combatant. Let's have your man's name! Peter in Vancouver Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivor Lee Posted 8 April , 2004 Share Posted 8 April , 2004 Peter If you ever discover the location of the Forestry Companies in the UK a lot of people, including yours truly, will be delighted! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ian Bowbrick Posted 8 April , 2004 Share Posted 8 April , 2004 Ivor/Others interested, Sometime ago I posted in the Unit Histories section that I own (actually it belongs to my wife) a Unit History of the CFC Units based in Hampshire during WW1. It was published in 1919 and contains many named photographs of the officers and group photographs. In addition 'we' also have a large photograph of all the officers/ORs and staff of CFC HQ. It is a very interesting photograph as it is anotated, by hand, with the names of everyone in the photo. This particular book was given to my wife's great-aunt who was in some Women's army unit and was assigned to the CFC as a Secretary. If anyone is interested I can publish details. Ian PS - I have brought the thread to the top of the Unit Histories Section. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Stillyards Posted 8 April , 2004 Author Share Posted 8 April , 2004 This is the man I am interested in - John William FOULSTON DRIVER T/324930 363rd Forestry Coy., Army Service Corp. Died Saturday 26 October 1918. Age 28. Son of John and Selina Foulston, Great Grimsby. I've been told (of forum) that his unit was made up from Consciencious Objectors this I now know to be wrong, but what of the unit being Canadian? Interestingly another man on the village memorial was Canadian and if anyone reading this thread could pass details to me about his unit I would be very pleased. Oliver Bilton Private 414485 Canadian Infantry (Quebec Regt.) 24th Bn. Died 15 August 1917 Husband of Elsie Bilton, of Barrow Haven, Hull, England. Kev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ian Bowbrick Posted 8 April , 2004 Share Posted 8 April , 2004 Kev, Just because a soldier was in the Canadian army didn'tmean he had to be Canadian. Many Brits volunteeredfor service with the Canadians or AIF primarily because the rates of pay were better! Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Stillyards Posted 8 April , 2004 Author Share Posted 8 April , 2004 Ian, Better rate of pay! I'd sign up. Oliver Bilton is listed by CWGC as a Canadian National. Oliver and all his family (to this day) were born and breed Lincolnshire folk. Do you think his nationality details are incorrect or was it normal for english soldiers serving in Canadian units to take on Canadian citizenship? Maybe he had plans for a new life in Canada after the war? Interesting. With regards to William Foulston, was 363rd Forestry Coy, UK or Canadian - anyone? Thanks Kev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Bramley Posted 8 April , 2004 Share Posted 8 April , 2004 Hi Kev, The Grimsby Absent Voters List (1919) records; Foulston, John William, 94 Roberts Street, T/324930 Dvr A.S.C. The Grimsby Roll of Honour records; Foulston J.W. Driver 5th Forestry Section. Both of these lists, it would seem, sometimes contain names added by relatives, which is looks like the case here. Cheers, Steve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Stillyards Posted 8 April , 2004 Author Share Posted 8 April , 2004 Thanks for the info Steve. Kev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broznitsky Posted 8 April , 2004 Share Posted 8 April , 2004 Kev, I am now confident Foulston was in the BEF. His CWGC details and T/number indicate he was in British forces. So, Ivor et al, what Forestry Companies or Forestry Sections were part of ASC? Oliver Bilton enlisted into the 40th (Nova Scotia) Battalion, in Halifax or Sydney in August 1915. The 40th fed Reserve battalions in England. Somehow Oliver wound up with the 24th (Victoria Rifles of Canada) Btn, a Québec unit, and fell on August 15th 1917, the first day of the Hill 70 offensive. The 24th's War Diary has a very detailed and lengthy Appendix 15, that describes the heavy fighting and casualties for August 15-17. The fact that Oliver, English-born and bred, is listed by CWGC as Canadian simply means that he was in the Canadian Army. As Ian indicates, thousands of Britishers living in Canada enlisted into the Canadian Expeditionary Force. Oliver would not have taken on Canadian citizenship. Hope this helps. Peter in Vancouver Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Stillyards Posted 8 April , 2004 Author Share Posted 8 April , 2004 Peter, Thanks for the details on Oliver Bilton. He must have been working away from home. Barrow Haven, his address as indicated on CWGC, had two main industries at the beginning of 20th cebtury, brick brickmaking and fishing - althought all the Biltons in Barrow were bricklayers. I'll have to track down a marriage certificate see what he was doing and if he married Elsie in Canada or England. Thanks Peter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ian Bowbrick Posted 8 April , 2004 Share Posted 8 April , 2004 Kev, I am now confident Foulston was in the BEF. His CWGC details and T/number indicate he was in British forces. So, Ivor et al, what Forestry Companies or Forestry Sections were part of ASC? Oliver Bilton enlisted into the 40th (Nova Scotia) Battalion, in Halifax or Sydney in August 1915. The 40th fed Reserve battalions in England. Somehow Oliver wound up with the 24th (Victoria Rifles of Canada) Btn, a Québec unit, and fell on August 15th 1917, the first day of the Hill 70 offensive. The 24th's War Diary has a very detailed and lengthy Appendix 15, that describes the heavy fighting and casualties for August 15-17. The fact that Oliver, English-born and bred, is listed by CWGC as Canadian simply means that he was in the Canadian Army. As Ian indicates, thousands of Britishers living in Canada enlisted into the Canadian Expeditionary Force. Oliver would not have taken on Canadian citizenship. Hope this helps. Peter in Vancouver Peter, Its not really a case of CFC units being part of the ASC, rather Drivers of the ASC being attached to the CFC. T3s were horse drivers by the by. Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broznitsky Posted 8 April , 2004 Share Posted 8 April , 2004 Ian, I think what I mean is did the BEF ASC or other British units have a forestry component of any kind? I can see a BEF ASC man being attached to Canadian Forestry Corps in England or France as a driver or for other duties, but were there any British foresters still alive and kicking formed into a British unit, or had they all been called up to serve with infantry or navy? (Am I making sense ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivor Lee Posted 8 April , 2004 Share Posted 8 April , 2004 Peter Complete sense. There were Labour Corps units and foreign labour units both attached to the CFC and also working as "foresters" but they were not permanent forestry companies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Stillyards Posted 8 April , 2004 Author Share Posted 8 April , 2004 Ian, You say that John Foulston's 'T3' service number indicates that he was a horse driver. Could you share a bit of your knowledge on this subject, on how ASC service numbers worked and what numbers researchers would find useful. For example would a number starting T4, indicate anything? I would be very grateful and very intersted. Or maybe the best books onm the subject. okay, Ivor / Broznitsky / everyone, are we saying that John foulston was a English soldier in the BEF but working in a CEF unit, a unit that was not as recorded by CWGC the 363rd but possibly the '5th forestry section' as listed in the Grimsby Roll of Honour. Kev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broznitsky Posted 8 April , 2004 Share Posted 8 April , 2004 are we saying that John foulston was a English soldier in the BEF but working in a CEF unit, a unit that was not as recorded by CWGC the 363rd but possibly the '5th forestry section' as listed in the Grimsby Roll of Honour. In a nutshell, Yes. Until somebody can provide a list of CFC companies/units serving in Britain, we can't confirm that there was a unit numbered 363rd Company, or that the 5th Forestry Section existed. (Oliver Bilton is much easier ) Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Stillyards Posted 8 April , 2004 Author Share Posted 8 April , 2004 Thanks Peter, I'm very pleased with the info I have. To throw yet another cat amongst the pigeons John Foulston is buried in the Abbeville Communal Cemetery Extension. This is not a place where KIA were buried or a Cemetery to commemorate the missing or where field hospitals were set up so possibly J. foulston died of a non combat event? Having siad that isn't it very close to the front for a forestry unit! I'm off to bed!! Thanks all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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