Fromelles 16 geneaology:Twamley

[topsey1234]

I thought as a newbie I would just post up my great uncle's details as he is one of the missing at Fromelles.

Leonard was one of three brothers who served, George was killed in 1917 and Sidney survived. Len was according to a letter I got from the MoD in 1982 enlisted at Leamington 0n 18th November 1918, embarked for BEF on 22nd May 1916, and reported missing on 19th July 1916.

Next of kin was his mother Drucilla of 52 Godiva Street Coventry. He is commemorated on the Loos memorial.

I rang the MoD about him on Monday and registered as a relative. They are sending me a pack and will possibly sending some body out in due course for a family visit.

Hopefully I have managed to post the only picture of him successfully together with an unknown soldier, also I think from the Warwickshire. Len is sitting. I think the picture must have been taken April or May of 1916 before being post to France, possibly at his home in Godiva Street. My grandmother , who was one of Len's sisters ,went after the war with her mother to visit the battle fields and I have a photo too of her at brothers Georges grave. Their mother has engraved on her grave in Coventry the names of both Len and George. If it turns out that Len is one of the 400 waiting to be found at Fromelles then it would finally bring resolution as to what happened to Len. From my reading of the regimental war diaries from the National Archives it was a ill thought out battle, with cruel orders such the wounded were to be left until non combatants came along to stretcher them back.

Presumably if he is identified in due course it would also mean he managed to cross to the German trenches. What I would be curious to know is whether its possible to find out what company he was in as the War Diaries do mention in the orders the intended role of specific companies.

Richard

[MelPack]

Richard

Welcome to the forum.

If you are having difficulty with uploading the photos then it is worth experimenting in the 'area to play' section at the botttom of the main page. They must be compressed below 100k or linked to an outside server.

Mel

[tharkin56]

could you send me a good resolution of your image and my personal e mail as I am doing an article for the coventry telegraph see www.warmemorialpark.co.uk/fromelles.pdf

I have a picture and article on George from the local papers

Would you be happy to speak to the telepgraph

[tharkin56]

I have a picture of leonard and george.

Coventry herald 17/8/1917 mrs twamley of 52 godiva street who had a son kiled on july 19, 1916 has now been informed that her second son pte geo. twamley was killed on the 31st july. nineteen years of age he was formely employed as grinder machine maker by messrs Guest who are near the charterhouse. eighteen months ago he joined the warwicks and transferred tot he worcesters and was with that regiment at the time of his death.

1/9/1916 coventry graphic mrs twamley of 52 godiva street would be grateful for news of her son who was reported missing on the 19th july. he was employed as a turner at the singer works and enlisted in the royal warwicks.

[topsey1234]

I have a picture of leonard and george.

Coventry herald 17/8/1917 mrs twamley of 52 godiva street who had a son kiled on july 19, 1916 has now been informed that her second son pte geo. twamley was killed on the 31st july. nineteen years of age he was formely employed as grinder machine maker by messrs Guest who are near the charterhouse. eighteen months ago he joined the warwicks and transferred tot he worcesters and was with that regiment at the time of his death.

1/9/1916 coventry graphic mrs twamley of 52 godiva street would be grateful for news of her son who was reported missing on the 19th july. he was employed as a turner at the singer works and enlisted in the royal warwicks.

Wow- I'm in awe that you have quoted the articles. Absolutely spot on. The family were involved in the bicycle and car industry. Thanks so much. I've tracked down two more nephews of Len's in Coventry. Spoke to one last night and another I'm going to ring today. len seems to have more family than I thought.

The identity of the unidentified soldier with Len in the picture is worth investigation- If he was a pal who was in the same battalion then could he be one of the missing at Fromelles too?

Whats the email address for the pictures to be sent to? I'm richard.parker@tesco.net

I have also posted a range of Twamley family WW1 pictures http://picasaweb.google.co.uk/richard.park...wamleyPictures#.

They include my grandmother visiting George's grave in Belgium

[topsey1234]

Wow- I'm in awe that you have quoted the articles. Absolutely spot on. The family were involved in the bicycle and car industry. Thanks so much. I've tracked down two more nephews of Len's in Coventry. Spoke to one last night and another I'm going to ring today. len seems to have more family than I thought.

The identity of the unidentified soldier with Len in the picture is worth investigation- If he was a pal who was in the same battalion then could he be one of the missing at Fromelles too?

Whats the email address for the pictures to be sent to? I'm richard.parker@tesco.net

I have also posted a range of Twamley family WW1 pictures http://picasaweb.google.co.uk/richard.park...wamleyPictures#.

They include my grandmother visiting George's grave in Belgium

As an update today I've discovered a thread from 30th April saying Leonard's emails had appeared on Ebay about three months ago. As a matter of urgency I have emailed Ebay this morning seeking the identity of the buyer but suspect having had one automated reply the follow up will be rather slow.

I would love to know who sold/bought the medals with a view to getting them returned to the family.

can any one help in this search?

Richard

[tharkin56]

I have doubled checked all my records and these were the medals of another coventry man who also had a brother which was leonard twaites not twamley. I know some collectors locally and will see if any off them have them as they would appear not to be in the family possession.

[topsey1234]

I thought every one would like to know I have now tracked down 6 living nephew and nieces of Leonard "Len". I've let them know about the situation, given them some information on the family tree. Also let them know of each others existence. Only one has internet access. There is the possibility of a few more yet.

Its perhaps worth bearing in mind all of the nephews and nieces are in their 70s. I would think any general appeal for relatives to come forward would best not be web based if my experience is any thing to go by. Some had heard what was happening at Fromelles, but none, like me had made the initial connection. Luckily I notice through Google news some local newspapers have covered the story, so this obviously helps.

The Historic Casualty Casework Team at the Service Personnel and Veterans Agency whom I've spoken to need a family tree and proof of relationships to Len. This will all be supplied in due course.

Richard

[topsey1234]

I thought every one would like to know I have now tracked down 6 living nephew and nieces of Leonard "Len". I've let them know about the situation, given them some information on the family tree. Also let them know of each others existence. Only one has internet access. There is the possibility of a few more yet.

Its perhaps worth bearing in mind all of the nephews and nieces are in their 70s. I would think any general appeal for relatives to come forward would best not be web based if my experience is any thing to go by. Some had heard what was happening at Fromelles, but none, like me had made the initial connection. Luckily I notice through Google news some local newspapers have covered the story, so this obviously helps.

The Historic Casualty Casework Team at the Service Personnel and Veterans Agency whom I've spoken to need a family tree and proof of relationships to Len. This will all be supplied in due course.

Richard

Many thanks to Trevor for arranging todays spot on the BBC radio in Coventry. After the show one of Leonard's nieces got in touch with me and filled in some blanks on the family tree. This relative is not on the net and like so many others it shows that perhaps the best way to track down the nearest relatives may be newspapers and radio.

I've also had one of Leonard's other relatives get in touch who sent me a copy of a newspaper article from 1917 with a picture of his brother George detailing the death of both brothers.

Richard

[topsey1234]

Many thanks to Trevor for arranging todays spot on the BBC radio in Coventry. After the show one of Leonard's nieces got in touch with me and filled in some blanks on the family tree. This relative is not on the net and like so many others it shows that perhaps the best way to track down the nearest relatives may be newspapers and radio.

I've also had one of Leonard's other relatives get in touch who sent me a copy of a newspaper article from 1917 with a picture of his brother George detailing the death of both brothers.

Richard

I have now just three nephews and nieces to check on- two may or may not be alive -surname Wood as a sister of Len's (Edith) married a William Wood in 1915 in Coventry and appears to have had two children -William Wood in 1918 and Gwendoline in 1920. Sister Edith re married in 1926 to a George Holroyd in 1926. No children from the 2nd marriage.

The other missing niece is in Australia, moved there in 1968, was Helen Twamley but married a Mr Tebbit and was last heard of in Queensland. May also possibly have moved to Tasmania. Would any one reading this from Australia know how I might be able make an appeal there or seek help?

All the other nephews and nieces have now been contacted and made aware of their link to Len.

Richard

[topsey1234]

I have now just three nephews and nieces to check on- two may or may not be alive -surname Wood as a sister of Len's (Edith) married a William Wood in 1915 in Coventry and appears to have had two children -William Wood in 1918 and Gwendoline in 1920. Sister Edith re married in 1926 to a George Holroyd in 1926. No children from the 2nd marriage.

The other missing niece is in Australia, moved there in 1968, was Helen Twamley but married a Mr Tebbit and was last heard of in Queensland. May also possibly have moved to Tasmania. Would any one reading this from Australia know how I might be able make an appeal there or seek help?

All the other nephews and nieces have now been contacted and made aware of their link to Len.

Richard

As another update here the oiginal article from 1917 mentioning both Leonard and George Twamley

text reads

Coventry Herald 17/8/1917 Mrs Twamley of 52 Godiva Street who had a son kiled on July 19, 1916 has now been informed that her second son Pte Geo. Twamley was killed on the 31st July. nineteen years of age he was formely employed as grinder machine maker by messrs Guest who are near the Charterhouse. eighteen months ago he joined the Warwicks and transferred tot he Worcesters and was with that regiment at the time of his death.

[topsey1234]

As another update here the oiginal article from 1917 mentioning both Leonard and George Twamley

text reads

Coventry Herald 17/8/1917 Mrs Twamley of 52 Godiva Street who had a son kiled on July 19, 1916 has now been informed that her second son Pte Geo. Twamley was killed on the 31st July. nineteen years of age he was formely employed as grinder machine maker by messrs Guest who are near the Charterhouse. eighteen months ago he joined the Warwicks and transferred tot he Worcesters and was with that regiment at the time of his death.

I have also these photos of my grandmother Alice Parker nee Twamley- Leonard's sister visiting brother George grave in Belgium after WW1.

[Fedelmar]

"The other missing niece is in Australia, moved there in 1968, was Helen Twamley but married a Mr Tebbit and was last heard of in Queensland. May also possibly have moved to Tasmania. Would any one reading this from Australia know how I might be able make an appeal there or seek help?"

Alerted to this by Aussie Chris.

Not sure what our chances will be as this is in the 'privacy act' and we may not be able to locate them. I have contacts in Qld and Tasmania but the chances of locating them is rather slim given the date. However, electoral rolls might help.

Tim is away at the moment but will be home shortly.

Leave this bit with me for now

Bright Blessings

Sandra

[Auimfo]

Richard,

Here's what I've found about the Twamley family. I presume you have most of this but maybe there's something in there that's useful.

(all the events listed occured in Coventry)

Herbert Twamley married Drucilla Lapworth in 1888. Her birth index spells her christian name 'Drusilla'. Oddly in the 1901 Census she is listed as 'Emma' Twamley?? Perhaps she didn't like her christian name and was using a middle name.

Anyway, they had the following children:

Lily 1889-1892

Oliver 1892-1940 married 1918 Nellie Brookes

children: Oliver W b.1919

Edith 1894-1978 first married 1915 William J Wood,

children: William R b.1916, Gwendoline M b.1920

second married 1926 George Holroyd

children: n/k

Leonard 1896-1916

Agnes 1898-1928 married 1924 Charles Hurton

children: Barbara J b.1928

George 1899-1917

Sidney 1900-1963 married 1927 Edith Pack

children: Sidney E b.1931, Helen D b.1934

Alice 1901-1986 married 1933 Harry Parker

children: Gordon H b.1934

Florence 1902-1992 married 1928 David Vincent

children: n/k

Percy 1904-1979 married 1930 Anne Clarke

children: n/k

Albert 1904-???? married 1935 Evelyn Allum

children: n/k

Henry 1906-1907

Will do some more hunting to see what I can find out about Helen in Australia.

Cheers,

Tim L.

[topsey1234]

Richard,

Here's what I've found about the Twamley family. I presume you have most of this but maybe there's something in there that's useful.

(all the events listed occured in Coventry)

Herbert Twamley married Drucilla Lapworth in 1888. Her birth index spells her christian name 'Drusilla'. Oddly in the 1901 Census she is listed as 'Emma' Twamley?? Perhaps she didn't like her christian name and was using a middle name.

Anyway, they had the following children:

Lily 1889-1892

Oliver 1892-1940 married 1918 Nellie Brookes

children: Oliver W b.1919

Edith 1894-1978 first married 1915 William J Wood,

children: William R b.1916, Gwendoline M b.1920

second married 1926 George Holroyd

children: n/k

Leonard 1896-1916

Agnes 1898-1928 married 1924 Charles Hurton

children: Barbara J b.1928

George 1899-1917

Sidney 1900-1963 married 1927 Edith Pack

children: Sidney E b.1931, Helen D b.1934

Alice 1901-1986 married 1933 Harry Parker

children: Gordon H b.1934

Florence 1902-1992 married 1928 David Vincent

children: n/k

Percy 1904-1979 married 1930 Anne Clarke

children: n/k

Albert 1904-???? married 1935 Evelyn Allum

children: n/k

Henry 1906-1907

Will do some more hunting to see what I can find out about Helen in Australia.

Cheers,

Tim L.

Good news Today

One of Len's service medals has been traced!- Just 24 hrs before the radio appeal that Trevor and I made on BBC Coventry and Warwickshire radio, the medal had been sold for £3. Its now been retrieved thanks to a relative being in contact after the radio interview and is being sent on for safe keeping.

Also it appears possible that the unidentified soldier in the picture above with "Len"may be 266487 Pte Harry Austin. Also killed at Fromelles. Harry Austin came from Coventry too and had a similar service number to Len's 266675. (Any experts out there on Warwickshire Service numbers in 1915?). I speculate whether they knew each other before joining up or even joined together?

Have a look at Trevors picture at the link below and see if you think its the same person:

www.warmemorialpark.co.uk/fromelles.pdf

Would appreciate a view as to whether you agree with me.

Richard

[Auimfo]

I'd have to say it's a very close match Richard. Even the kinks in his breast pockets of his uniform seem the same!

Cheers,

Tim L.

[Guest]

The news paper article says George was 19 when killed. His birth year seems to put that out by one year. According to what Tim has put up he was 18 and the article says he joined 18 mths before. So young.

[topsey1234]

The news paper article says George was 19 when killed. His birth year seems to put that out by one year. According to what Tim has put up he was 18 and the article says he joined 18 mths before. So young.

The 1901 and 1911 census seem to indicate a birth year of 1899, but his birth was actually registered in the Sept qtr of 1898 in Coventry according to freebmd.org.uk.

I therefore think 19 is the more likely age. Incredibly tragic for his widow mother, looses her husband in 1914, and two sons in a year in 1916/17.

Richard

[Guest]

And two children before that. It really brings home, those times.

Best regards

Kim

[topsey1234]

And two children before that. It really brings home, those times.

Best regards

Kim

Special thanks again to Trevor as I understand there is a piece in the Coventry Evening Telegraph with pictures of the missing including Len. One of his nieces rang me tonight to tell me and was very excited. Unfortunately the on line version does not carry the pictures of the fallen. I would also like to try and find out from where Len seems to have known Pte Harry Austin? Every one so far agrees he matches in appearance to the soldier with Len. I wonder if they were similar ages or went to the same school in Coventry, or if they worked together at Singers where Len worked?

Richard

[topsey1234]

Special thanks again to Trevor as I understand there is a piece in the Coventry Evening Telegraph with pictures of the missing including Len. One of his nieces rang me tonight to tell me and was very excited. Unfortunately the on line version does not carry the pictures of the fallen. I would also like to try and find out from where Len seems to have known Pte Harry Austin? Every one so far agrees he matches in appearance to the soldier with Len. I wonder if they were similar ages or went to the same school in Coventry, or if they worked together at Singers where Len worked?

Richard

Many thanks to Tim and Sandra for their help in tracking down the last niece on my list of living relatives. Just waiting to speak to her and let her know of her link. Otherwise all the living relatives and nephews have now been contacted.

In between time I have found some pictures I took a few years ago of the Loos memorial with Leonard's name on.

Richard

Many thanks to Tim and Sandra for their help in tracking down the last niece on my list of living relatives. Just waiting to speak to her and let her know of her link. Otherwise all the living relatives and nephews have now been contacted.

In between time I have found some pictures I took a few years ago of the Loos memorial with Leonard's name on.

Richard

heres a slightly closer view- Len's name is at the bottom of the central list

Richard

[topsey1234]

Many thanks to Tim and Sandra for their help in tracking down the last niece on my list of living relatives. Just waiting to speak to her and let her know of her link. Otherwise all the living relatives and nephews have now been contacted.

In between time I have found some pictures I took a few years ago of the Loos memorial with Leonard's name on.

Richard

heres a slightly closer view- Len's name is at the bottom of the central list

Richard

Good News!

I have been given by one of Leonard's relatives, his posthumously awarded Victory Medal. I am very glad to know at least one of his medals has survived this long and is now in very safe hands.

Also now sent off all the genealogical information needed by the MoD for their search for relatives if DNA is needed.

I've also been trying to find out if there's any possibility of the early release of the "burnt records" WW1 army service records. So far up to the letter N has been released and I was curious about the timetable. If his is service record still exists then it may have the odd detail that could help.Tried Ancestry.co.uk who were really unhelpful in their reply. Now awaiting a response from the National Archives.

Richard

[topsey1234]

Good News!

I have been given by one of Leonard's relatives, his posthumously awarded Victory Medal. I am very glad to know at least one of his medals has survived this long and is now in very safe hands.

Also now sent off all the genealogical information needed by the MoD for their search for relatives if DNA is needed.

I've also been trying to find out if there's any possibility of the early release of the "burnt records" WW1 army service records. So far up to the letter N has been released and I was curious about the timetable. If his is service record still exists then it may have the odd detail that could help.Tried Ancestry.co.uk who were really unhelpful in their reply. Now awaiting a response from the National Archives.

Richard

Heres a picture of the inscription on the Victory Medal posthumously awarded to Leonard. No sign of his other medal.

[topsey1234]

Many thanks to Trevor Harkin for supplying a 2nd photo of Leonard Twamley. I'm now seeking out the original from relatives.

Interestingly I have inherited a crucifix. The story behind it was that it belonged to "one of the brothers" who was killed, either Leonard or brother George and was returned with personal possessions after they were killed. I will be contacting the SPVA casework team as they are looking for such items as they may still have DNA on them which could be useful in identification.

Richard

[Stebie9173]

Just a note on the Royal Warwickshire Regiment numbers. During the Great War there were numerous different numbering series. On of these was that given to Territorials. Each pre-war battalion of Territorials issued it's soldiers with a number from its own series - theoretically starting from No. 1 in 1908 when the Militia and Volunteer battalions became the Territorial Force.

In 1917, these men were re-numbered to reduce the administration problems with all these number series.

200001 to 240000 5th Battalion Royal Warwickshire Regt

240001 to 265000 6th Battalion Royal Warwickshire Regt

265001 to 305000 7th Battalion Royal Warwickshire Regt

305001 to 330000 8th Battalion Royal Warwickshire Regt

and a war-time created battalion,

330001 to 355000 18th Battalion Royal Warwickshire Regt

As you can see Len Twamley's number lies in the 7th Battalion series (which is what we'd expect).

What is notable about the renumbering is that it took place in MARCH 1917 (officially the 1st March 1917), eight months after Len Twamley was posted as Missing. You often see this with men posted missing, as they were still "held on the books" until officially recognised as having been killed, which was often about a year after a man went missing.

Len Twamley would have actually served under his pre-1917 number. This SHOULD be shown on the Medal Index Card, but isn't - I'm not familiar with the Royal Warwickshire Regiment medal cards in general, but this seems to be missed off on all of the ones around Len Twamley's number.

See: http://www.1914-1918.net/renumbering.htm

Incidentally, though Len Twamley's service record isn't online yet, the man with the next number - 266676 Reginald Thomas Greasley, is.

We can draw a couple of conclusions from this:

- Reginald Greasley enlisted at Coventry on 20-11-1915. It was around this time that the Derby Scheme came into being changing the way of enlisting, but it seems like Reginald Greasley volunteered under normal Territorial Enlistment and went into uniform immediately.

- Reginald Greasley was issued number 4622. Logic might dictate that Len Twamley's number was therefore 4621.... BUT if a man was discharged or killed (and known to be dead) prior to the re-numbering he would not be renumbered, hence Len Twamley's number is probably close to 4621, but not necessarily exactly 4621.

Another man - Lewis Elks had the following numbers - Royal Warwickshire Regiment 4616, Royal Warwickshire Regiment 266672, Machine Gun Corps 136397, Royal Engineers WR/307888, and this would therefore mean that Len Twamley's number must have been either 4619, 4620 or 4621 (4617 and 4618 cannot be his number due to the presence of the men renumbering to 266673 and 266674 - 4617 was definitely William John Goode - see below; 4618 was L/Cpl. Sidney Sheffield, KIA 19-7-1916)

- Reginald Greasley trained with 2/7th Battalion Royal Warwickshire Regiment and embarked to France on 22-5-1916 - this is not necessarily the date when all the men with similar numbers embarked, however. It was though the date that the 2/7th Battalion arrived in France en-masse so it is likely to be the date of a lot of these mens embarkation.

Another man's records with a very close number are those of 4617/266673 William John Goode - actually missing with Len Twamley on 19-7-1916.

William John Goode, 4617 7th Bn. Royal Warwickshire Regiment.

- Volunteered under normal Territorial Enlistment at Coventry, 19-11-1915.

- Numbered 4617

- Posted to 2/7th Battalion Royal Warwickshire Regiment.

- Embarked to France, 22-5-1916.

- Missing, 19-7-1916

- Taken POW.

- Renumbered 266673

- Died as a POW at Giessen, 5-7-1918

Interesting to note that on the photograph is that Len is wearing an Imperial Service Obligation badge, denoting that he volunteered for overseas duty. He probably did this upon enlistment. The above mentioned 4617 William John Goode signed his upon attestation on 19-11-1915.

In conclusion, these records seem to be saying the same thing about these men - enlisted around 20-11-1915, issued with numbers in 4617 to 4622 range, trained with 7th Reserve battalion, embarked to France on 22-5-1916. This seems to back up what the MOD letter you received states,

Sorry, I think I got sidetracked a bit... (and it was largely information you already know!) but in answer to the numbering question, Harry Austins number of 266487 would date to around May 1915.

Steve.