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Remembered Today:

2AM 19262 William Hayman RFC


high wood

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I have two 1916 dated postcards sent from Rouen by a father to his son, William Hayman. William has two different addresses, the first, as of 1st August 1916, was No.19262 Pte W Hayman, "B" Company, 11th East Surreys, Shoreham Camp, Shoreham, Sussex.

The second as of, 30th September 1916 was No. P/19262 2nd Class A M. "G" Section, Royal Flying Corps, S. Farnborough, Hants.

Both cards are just signed dad so I have no idea which regiment Mr Hayman senior served with. William Hayman is unlikely to have had the same service number for both the East Surrey Regiment and the RFC so the number is probably his East Surrey Regiment number. I cannot find a medal index card for a William Hayman with this number probably because the 11th Btn East Surreys were a reserve battalion and William Hayman transferred to the RFC before going overseas.

Can anyone suggest how I might identify both father and son?

post-6480-1241271277.jpg

post-6480-1241271326.jpg

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Have you located the family on the census? If they were a Surrey family have you tried the Surrey enlistment books to find the father?

The RFC was an Army unit so their records are a standard Army search. On 1st April 1918 the RFC merged to become the RAF. Their records are held in service number order offline at Kw;there is an incomplete alphabetical index in AIR 78 - also not online. only a small percentage of RFC & RAF men have a Army MiC (the ones that are online); so far the RAF have not released their MICs and it was the RAF who issued most British War & Victory Medals.

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The problem is the sheer number of William Hayman's. I cannot find a William Hayman with the service number indicated amongst the medal index cards. I tried looking looking through Air 78 but it is so badly microfilmed that I couldn't find a man with this number. Equally, if this was his East Surrey Regiment service number it would have changed once he transferred to the RFC and we don't know his new RFC number.

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Perhaps he was commissioned?

Description Medal card of Hayman, William George Edward

Corps Regiment No Rank

Royal Army Service Corps Lieutenant

Royal Flying Corps and Royal Air Force Flying Officer

Rgds

Tim

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If he transferred to the RFC before qualifying for medals then he would not have an army MIC. The RFC renumbered their entrants to their own numbers, possibly his father didn't know it. You could try contacting the RAF records department tosee if they have a better index to the service numbers and then go through the list of William Hayman's. On the RAF service record you should find his next of kin listed.

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If he was his service record will be in AIR 76 and they are in alphabetical order on microfilm.

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I am still convinced that the service number was his East Surrey number as he had this number at Shoreham whilst serving with the 11th Btn. Mr Hayman senior would have known his son's regiment and service number when he sent the first postcard. He would have also known that his son had transferred to the RFC but does not appear to have known his new service number so he used the old one.

Could someone please check to see if William Hayman's service papers with the East Surrey Regiment have survived on Ancestry as this should reveal his next of kin details?

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I'm sorry that my comment appears not to have been clear. I agree "Mr Hayman senior would have known his son's regiment and service number when he sent the first postcard." It is his RFC number that I was referring to. If William Hayman's service papers for service with the East Surrey Regiment are on Ancestry they should include a cross reference to his RFC service and maybe details of his RFC service too, it was an army unit. You could try looking for an RAF record using the service number you have.

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Post 3 mentions that you have used AIR 78; it does not mention AIR 79, which is in service number order. AIR 79/209 covers service numbers 19151 - 19265 and might be worth looking at. Air 78 is not only badly microfilmed it is incomplete and contains entries for men that served long after 1920. If you only looked for "a man with this number" you may have over looked possabilities, as he was probably re numbered.

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Post 3 mentions that you have used AIR 78; it does not mention AIR 79, which is in service number order. AIR 79/209 covers service numbers 19151 - 19265 and might be worth looking at. Air 78 is not only badly microfilmed it is incomplete and contains entries for men that served long after 1920. If you only looked for "a man with this number" you may have over looked possabilities, as he was probably re numbered.

My previous post was somewhat rushed. I have looked in AIR 78 which are the microfilmed index cards arranged alphabetically. I have also looked in AIR 79/209 specifically for the service number 19262. If I remember correctly, and it was some time ago when I did this particular piece of research, 19262 was issued to another man not William Hayman.

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As the RAF MICs haven't been released to the public yet, maybe the RAF records department have some information that will help.

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  • 1 month later...

I have been given details of a William S G Hayman, 12544, 11th Battalion East Surrey Regiment who attested at Peckham on 4th December 1915 aged 18 years and 3 months. Home address: 25 Muschamp Road, East Dulwich who may possibly be a candidate.

Does anyone have any further information about this man?

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  • 12 years later...

I have recently discovered that William Stephen J Hayman is on the R.A.F. Muster Roll with the R.A.F. Service number of 40,101.

He is shown on the 1901 census as living with his widowed mother at 9, Pilkington Road, Camberwell.

By 1911 he is living at 20, Whorlton Road, Peckham, with his mother, stepfather, Charles Edward Ford and half sister, Dorothy Mable.

From re-reading the post cards, it would seem that Charles Edward Ford was serving in France when he sent the post cards to his stepson, (30th September 1916).

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Two bits of info to add re WSJ Hayman of Peckham.

1- in fact you know this already- from Surrey Recruitment Registers courtesy Findmypast:

            W S J Hayman 12544  11th East Surreys, Attested 4/12/15 (Derby Scheme) aged 18yrs 3months. Address 25 Muschamp Rd E Dulwich.  Trade "Metal Improver"

2. National Roll of the Great War:

                     1281496316_GWFHaymanWRAFNatRollforWSJ.JPG.47caf03b1fa05b49ce462838ff3c3e74.JPG

             The RAF MusterRoll shows joined  12/5/16, trade Tinsmith

 

Charlie 

Edited by charlie962
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...which leads to his stepfather in the same National Roll:

                     398366393_GWFHaymanWFatherinNatRoll.JPG.809639f17de38612077917080ba739a5.JPG

Edit-

which is presumably Sgt Maj Ford RAMC 30579 who entered France 12/5/15

Edited by charlie962
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For WSJ Hayman, I would suggest that he actually transferred to the RFC between 3rd and 8th August 1916.

Here is data for numbers either side:

40100 joined Army 14/6/16,    trfd RFC 3/8/16
40101 attested 4/12/15, joined    12/5/16,   trfd RFC   ......  3/8/16-  per info on 1918 Muster Roll
40102 attested 10/12/15, joined Army 29/6/16,   trfd RFC 8/8/16

The joining dates are presumably the mobilisation dates (or the day before)

Charlie

Edited by charlie962
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Charlie,

many thanks for finding the final pieces of the puzzle, it is appreciated. After all these years, I finally know who sent the post cards.

Simon.

 

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