Tom Tulloch-Marshall Posted 2 May , 2009 Share Posted 2 May , 2009 In the Northumberland Fusiliers BW&V rolls there are a series of entries showing men as 7th Bn East Yorkshire Regt attached 20th Northumberland Fusiliers (1st Tyneside Scottish), subsequently transferred to 20th North'd Fus. Some of these men have one service number when attached (generally five digit beginning 21 or 22) and then another after the transfer - others keep the same number. Does anybody have any information about when & why this took place ? regards - Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joseph Posted 2 May , 2009 Share Posted 2 May , 2009 Tom, Nothing jumps out at me on my Database, have you any specific number groups or individual numbers. Regards Charles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Cole Posted 16 August , 2009 Share Posted 16 August , 2009 Tom, Nothing jumps out at me on my Database, have you any specific number groups or individual numbers. Regards Charles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Cole Posted 16 August , 2009 Share Posted 16 August , 2009 Tom, Nothing jumps out at me on my Database, have you any specific number groups or individual numbers. Regards Charles Charles, Tom has looked into my Great Grandfathers possible records for me, with limited sucess. My GG was enlisted as Private 38570 George Shepherd 1/4th Bn. Northumberland Fusiliers, formaly 20th Bn. Northumberland Fusiliers, formaly Pte 21870 7th Bn East Yorkshire Reg. attached 20th Bn Northumberland Fus. I'm looking for any possible information relating to George or related Battalion daries. I know for a fact he was a POW but that's about it. Regards, Greg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bingo794 Posted 16 August , 2009 Share Posted 16 August , 2009 Charles, Tom has looked into my Great Grandfathers possible records for me, with limited sucess. My GG was enlisted as Private 38570 George Shepherd 1/4th Bn. Northumberland Fusiliers, formaly 20th Bn. Northumberland Fusiliers, formaly Pte 21870 7th Bn East Yorkshire Reg. attached 20th Bn Northumberland Fus. I'm looking for any possible information relating to George or related Battalion daries. I know for a fact he was a POW but that's about it. Regards, Greg There could be number of reasons for transfer and there seems to have been quite a few transfer between the East Yorkshire's and the NF. He could have been one of the many returning wounded and placed with the 20th NF as they needed replacement men. High losses. If he was in the line, and an attack had happened, the request may have gone out for reinforcement at a weak point in the front. After a time they may have been taken on the numbers of the supported unit. I know of one man from Princes Avenue, Hull, John George Flockton, who was with the 9th East Yorks for training in the UK and on being sent to the front went straight to the 1st NF in 1916 and was KIA with them in August, 1918. Another man from Hessle Rd., Hull, John William Binks, who was a pre-war territorial with the East Yorks I think went straight to the 20th or 21st NF in 1916. A wounded 8th Lincs Regt. man from Skegness, Harold Hill was returning after being wounded, he was sent with a contingent of new recruits and returned wounded to the 11th East Yorks to be KIA 3rd May, 1917 at Oppy Wood. So, as you can see, there maybe any number of reasons for his transfer. If a service record was available, this may give clues as to dates and places, the whys and wherefores. Dick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bingo794 Posted 16 August , 2009 Share Posted 16 August , 2009 Just noticed that the 9th East Yorks became the 7th (Training Reserve) Battalion, John George Flockton was numbered 21221. Your man may have started out in the same way, trained at the 7th (earlier 9th) and like Flockton been transferred straight to the 20/NF (in the case of Flockton the 1/NF) on being sent to France. Without the paperwork we may never know. Dick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joseph Posted 17 August , 2009 Share Posted 17 August , 2009 Dick, Where did you find that information, John Flockton 21221 went overseas with the 8th Battalion East Yorkshire Regiment May 1916. Regards Charles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Medic7922 Posted 17 August , 2009 Share Posted 17 August , 2009 I know I had some imformation on my Great-Uncle 60286 Pte Charles Osgothorpe, East Yorkshires, later 22nd (Tyneside Scottish) Bn.Northhumberland Fusiliers, who was killed during the Battle of the Lys, but I do not know which battlion of the EY he belong also if he had a service number with the EY or kept the same number? also why did most of the East Yorkshires end up in the Northhumberlands and not other regiments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joseph Posted 17 August , 2009 Share Posted 17 August , 2009 Charles joined the 4th Battalion East Yorkshire Regiment on the 28th of June 1916 as 4th/5668 (Territorial Number), this draft came from the Lincolnshire Regiment. He then transferred to the 13th Battalion East Yorkshire Regiment on the 25th January 1917 and was renumbered into the Regular Force as 28727, the 13th Battalion was disbanded on the 8th February 1918. A large draft of the 12th and 13th Battalions East Yorkshire Regiment then joined the Northumberland Fusiliers. Regards Charles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bingo794 Posted 17 August , 2009 Share Posted 17 August , 2009 Dick, Where did you find that information, John Flockton 21221 went overseas with the 8th Battalion East Yorkshire Regiment May 1916. Regards Charles John Flockton was with the 9th East Yorks as 9/21221, which became the 7th Training Reserve, he went to France in 1916, was not entitled to the 14-15 Star. As the 9th or 7th Training Reserve did not go to France and his MIC roll did not state he was with any other battalion or regiment, I would have though he would have gone straight to the 1/NF, with whom he was KIA 23/08/1918. So, we do have further information on this chap. What else do you have on Mr. Flockton of Welbeck St., Prinny Av? Been after as much on John Flockton as I can get. Hit a few dead ends with him. I was going to bung you this info for your EYRegt site. I have some more on Harold Hill 8/Lincs later 11/EY being one of three brothers KIA, and a bit more on John William Binks EY later 21/NF Dick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joseph Posted 17 August , 2009 Share Posted 17 August , 2009 Dick, The 9th Battalion was reorganized as the 7th Training reserve on the 1st September 1916, its immediate connection with the East Yorkshire Regiment ceased all who remained with it where renumbered as Training Reserve. His MIC says he went overseas with the East Yorkshire Regiment, and his number group joined the 8th Battalion from the 9th Battalion in May 1916. We need a NF expert to say when he got the NF number. Regards Charles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bingo794 Posted 18 August , 2009 Share Posted 18 August , 2009 Dick, The 9th Battalion was reorganized as the 7th Training reserve on the 1st September 1916, its immediate connection with the East Yorkshire Regiment ceased all who remained with it where renumbered as Training Reserve. His MIC says he went overseas with the East Yorkshire Regiment, and his number group joined the 8th Battalion from the 9th Battalion in May 1916. We need a NF expert to say when he got the NF number. Regards Charles Cheers Charles This would explain alot and take a bit of guess work out of the equation. Nice to be able to put a Battalion to him. Have you any other info on him? Dick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bingo794 Posted 18 August , 2009 Share Posted 18 August , 2009 Dick, Where did you find that information, John Flockton 21221 went overseas with the 8th Battalion East Yorkshire Regiment May 1916. Regards Charles Where did you get this info from? Anything else on J.G. Flockton of Welbeck St., would be nice to see. No pics in the local rags? Dick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joseph Posted 18 August , 2009 Share Posted 18 August , 2009 Dick, His number group joined the 8th Battalion, the 9th Battalion fed the 6th 7th and 8th Battalions. It was a draft of 100 or so men. He is on the Welbeck Street Roll of Honour. Regards Charles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Stewart Posted 19 August , 2009 Share Posted 19 August , 2009 Just to confirm what Charles has said the 1918 draft from the East Yorks to the NF are renumbered 60260 through to 60356. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bingo794 Posted 19 August , 2009 Share Posted 19 August , 2009 Dick, His number group joined the 8th Battalion, the 9th Battalion fed the 6th 7th and 8th Battalions. It was a draft of 100 or so men. He is on the Welbeck Street Roll of Honour. Regards Charles Charles, I did not know of a Memorial on Welbeck Street, Where abouts is that situated, I must get over for a pic. Dick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bingo794 Posted 19 August , 2009 Share Posted 19 August , 2009 Just to confirm what Charles has said the 1918 draft from the East Yorks to the NF are renumbered 60260 through to 60356. Numbered 9/21221 Cpl. John George Flockton with the East Yorks, his number on transfer to the 1st NF was 38687. Can you pin a date down for his transfer? Dick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Stewart Posted 19 August , 2009 Share Posted 19 August , 2009 The East Yorks with whom Flockton was transferred from were renumbered from 38555 through to 38711. To be honest there's no exact science to determine transfers, but considering the first death among these East Yorks was October 1916, then I would have to say they were probably transferred around August/September 1916. A considerable number(but not all) went to the Tyneside Scots to replace 1st July 1916 casualties. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bingo794 Posted 20 August , 2009 Share Posted 20 August , 2009 One of the other men, Pte. John William Binks 21/NF KIA 10/01/1917 was another Hull fellow, I think he started out with the EYR, though it does not say as much on his MIC. Any idea on his date of transfer to the NF, was he a replacement for the high losses within the ranks of the NF? Dick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Stewart Posted 20 August , 2009 Share Posted 20 August , 2009 NF Rolls and numbers from 44113 through to 44260 contain a high proportion of E.Yorks, again some dying as early as March 17, so they must have arrived around December 16/January 17. Sadly there are few references to previous E.Yorks Bn's served in. Binks himself has an unusually high E.Yorks number and I honestly think he's come from an E.Yorks Training Reserve Bn and the number should possibly be TR/5/80779. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bingo794 Posted 21 August , 2009 Share Posted 21 August , 2009 Blimey, you can be that accurate. That is amazing. It is known from family that John Binks was with the (TF?) prior to or very early in WW1. I just had a look at your profile, no wonder you know your stuff. You wouldn't happen to know anything about an officer, a chap from Brigg, Lincs. who was living in Hull, was a policeman and joined as a Pte. Coldstream Guards, and was commissioned as a 2nd/Lt in the Tyneside Irish, KIA 23/10/1917 Arthur Thompson. Dick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Stewart Posted 24 August , 2009 Share Posted 24 August , 2009 Dick, Sorry for the late reply to this one, but all I know is that he was commissioned 11th Sept 1915 and actually killed while attached the Lincolnshire Regt and you'll probably know he's buried in Tyne Cot Cemetery. The NF officers aren't really a big thing of mine as I tend to go more for the O/R's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bingo794 Posted 25 August , 2009 Share Posted 25 August , 2009 Dick, Sorry for the late reply to this one, but all I know is that he was commissioned 11th Sept 1915 and actually killed while attached the Lincolnshire Regt and you'll probably know he's buried in Tyne Cot Cemetery. The NF officers aren't really a big thing of mine as I tend to go more for the O/R's. Hi Graham Yes, my main area is O/R's, too. This 15 Trio & Plaque set came to me with his brothers 15 Trio & Plaque set at the same time, he was an O/R in the Linc.R. I managed to get his Officers Papers, (Thanks to Ann Swabey) and all his details are in there to see. There is a mistake, however, he was KIA with the 24/27 NF under Capt. Bowes-Lyon on 09/09/1917 and with Lt. N.L. Wood. The only mention of the Linc.R. is as his preferred regiment for service, once commissioned. His brother being KIA with the 8/Linc.R. on 26/09/1915 and it being his local/home unit. I see it mentioned as the secondary regiment on CWGC, but can find no record of him being with any Linc.R. unit at any time. Dick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Stewart Posted 25 August , 2009 Share Posted 25 August , 2009 Dick, Highly unlikely he was KIA with 35th NF as they never served overseas. They were a TF Bn and based at Herne Bay at the time of his death. Couldn't be 36th Bn either as they were a TF Bn too and didn't proceed overseas until May 1918. Double checked CWGC and this is what we have;- http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_detail...casualty=827496 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bingo794 Posted 25 August , 2009 Share Posted 25 August , 2009 Hi Graham Sorry, 'D' Coy. 24/27 NF I don't know where the 35/NF came from, I expect I'm confusing battalion's that I am working on, losing the plot. Just doing a bit on a 35/NF or 37/NF man, he did not serve abroad because of his age at 49 and his various health problems. No.341910 Pte. James Stephen Johnson. Excuse me Dick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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