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Remembered Today:

Who was the CO of these units..?


david west

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Hi Guys, Heres a few questions that have been puzzling me for a while..Can anyone tell me the names of the officers who were in charge of/or were Company Commanders of the 23rd, 24th, 25th & 218th Machine Gun Coys from when they were formed in early 1916 until they were re-named/reformed into the 8th Btn Machine Gun Corps ?, and who commanded the new MG coys from when when they were re-named the 8th Machine Gun Btn to the end of the war ?. Did the 23rd MG coy become A Coy, 8th Btn MG Corps, and 24th MG coy become B coy, 8th MG Btn etc, etc. (i have major interest in 23rd MG coy)

Another one for the experts, does anyone know why Lt Col R.L Sherbrooke from 1 Sherwood Foresters became the Btn Commander of the 8th Machine Gun Btn from their formation in Jan 1918, and why was Lt Col R.L Sherbrooke replaced by Lt Col J. Angell ? Where/or what unit did Lt Col Angell come from ?

Does anyone know which MG coys from the 8th MG Btn were sent to Russia in 1919 ? (my Grandfather was sent to Russia as a member of the Machine Gun Corps from 16th August 1919 - 3rd October 1919), and again which/how many MG Coys were sent to India from 24th March 1920 - 22nd May 1921 (the dates from my Grandfathers service record).

I hope that some of the forums members can help me with these questions, and thanks to all that have helped me/pointed me in the right direction in the past,

Regards to all,

Dave

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Hi Dave,

I'm guessing you've got Lt Cols Sherbrooke and Angell as OCs of 8th MG Battalion from Appendix II 'Orders of Battle' from 'The Eigth Division 1914-1918' by Boraston and Bax? I can't tell you too much more I'm afraid apart from that at the start of the 3rd Ypres (31st July 1917), 23rd, 24th and 25th MG Companies were commanded by Captains J Bourke, A M Pratt and A Simonds, respectively; and 218th MG Company was commanded by Major S C Houston (from the same book, pages 137 & 138).

When the Division went back into the line for the attack on the 16th August 1917, 23rd MC Coy came under Captain F W Robinson and 218th MG Coy Lieutenant E Tall (24th and 25th MG Coys were still under Captains Pratt and Simonds) (again, from the same book, page 144).

Not much to go on, but hopefully that's of some use!

Kind regards

Steve

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Hi Dave,

I'm guessing you've got Lt Cols Sherbrooke and Angell as OCs of 8th MG Battalion from Appendix II 'Orders of Battle' from 'The Eigth Division 1914-1918' by Boraston and Bax? I can't tell you too much more I'm afraid apart from that at the start of the 3rd Ypres (31st July 1917), 23rd, 24th and 25th MG Companies were commanded by Captains J Bourke, A M Pratt and A Simonds, respectively; and 218th MG Company was commanded by Major S C Houston (from the same book, pages 137 & 138).

When the Division went back into the line for the attack on the 16th August 1917, 23rd MC Coy came under Captain F W Robinson and 218th MG Coy Lieutenant E Tall (24th and 25th MG Coys were still under Captains Pratt and Simonds) (again, from the same book, page 144).

Not much to go on, but hopefully that's of some use!

Kind regards

Steve

Hi Steve, thanks alot for your help..

Dave (you guessed right with the B & B...a bit irritating that the names are buried in the book, and not mentioned in the order of battle)

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Angell had been in the MGc since the start:

The Prince of Wales's Volunteers (South Lancashire Regiment").

Second Lieutenant J. Angell is seconded for duty with a Brigade Machine Gun Company, and to be temporary Captain whilst

serving with it. Dated 24th January, 1916.

http://www.london-gazette.co.uk/issues/295...upplements/3527

Took command of an (unnamed) Co, from 14-7-1916

http://www.london-gazette.co.uk/issues/297...upplements/9466

http://www.london-gazette.co.uk/issues/302...upplements/7985

See also:

http://www.london-gazette.co.uk/issues/315...pplements/12005

Steve.

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Angell had been in the MGc since the start:

The Prince of Wales's Volunteers (South Lancashire Regiment").

Second Lieutenant J. Angell is seconded for duty with a Brigade Machine Gun Company, and to be temporary Captain whilst

serving with it. Dated 24th January, 1916.

http://www.london-gazette.co.uk/issues/295...upplements/3527

Took command of an (unnamed) Co, from 14-7-1916

http://www.london-gazette.co.uk/issues/297...upplements/9466

http://www.london-gazette.co.uk/issues/302...upplements/7985

See also:

http://www.london-gazette.co.uk/issues/315...pplements/12005

Steve.

Hi Steve, pretty amazing work, thanks alot...he certainly was in the right place at the right time, he flew from 2nd Lt to Lt Col in no time at all..wow.

Thanks for your help,

Dave

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  • 7 months later...
Hi Guys, Heres a few questions that have been puzzling me for a while..Can anyone tell me the names of the officers who were in charge of/or were Company Commanders of the 23rd, 24th, 25th & 218th Machine Gun Coys from when they were formed in early 1916 until they were re-named/reformed into the 8th Btn Machine Gun Corps ?, and who commanded the new MG coys from when when they were re-named the 8th Machine Gun Btn to the end of the war ?. Did the 23rd MG coy become A Coy, 8th Btn MG Corps, and 24th MG coy become B coy, 8th MG Btn etc, etc. (i have major interest in 23rd MG coy)

Another one for the experts, does anyone know why Lt Col R.L Sherbrooke from 1 Sherwood Foresters became the Btn Commander of the 8th Machine Gun Btn from their formation in Jan 1918, and why was Lt Col R.L Sherbrooke replaced by Lt Col J. Angell ? Where/or what unit did Lt Col Angell come from ?

Does anyone know which MG coys from the 8th MG Btn were sent to Russia in 1919 ? (my Grandfather was sent to Russia as a member of the Machine Gun Corps from 16th August 1919 - 3rd October 1919), and again which/how many MG Coys were sent to India from 24th March 1920 - 22nd May 1921 (the dates from my Grandfathers service record).

I hope that some of the forums members can help me with these questions, and thanks to all that have helped me/pointed me in the right direction in the past,

Regards to all,

Dave

John Angell was my Grandfather. His story requires detailed research that at some stage I will complete but I know that he was a subaltern in the Royal Irish Fusiliers (his father’s regiment) before the war in India. He was cashiered in July 1914 - we believe because of his debts - and immediately rejoined the Army as a soldier in 2/KRRR where he quickly became a Sgt.. In October 1914 his youngest brother Geoffrey joined the 8th Gurkha Rifles part of the 7th Meerut Division in France. The family account is that both met in immediately after the battle of Aubers Ridge but before 13 May 1915 when Geoffrey was killed in the front line by a trench mortar - out of interest 8th Gurkhas had just relieved 2/KRRC on 10 May. Geoffrey is buried at St Vaast Post.

My grandfather was quickly commissioned into the South Lancashire Rifles in 1915 and on into the Machine Gun Corps where eventually he was rebadged to 2 DORSETS. He was awarded the DSO and MC rising to the rank of Lt Col and commanding the 8th Battalion MGC until the end of the war.

We have uploaded his verbal account of Armistice Day to the Imperial War Museum at:

http://www.iwmcollections.org.uk/dbtw-wpd/...mp;FG=0&QS=

However, if anyone wants the file directly please let me know. I have a formal photograph of him after the Armistice with his officers in Germany which I will upload shortly.

He had 2 children and both my mother and uncle are still alive today. After the war he served again in India and Africa in the Dorsets before transferring to the Royal Tank Regiment in 1923. He moved to Margaret River in Australia in 1925 where he lived into his nineties.

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Lieutenant Colonel J. Angell relinquished command of 8th Battalion MGC on 26 March 1919, around the time the battalion was disbanded. Shortly after, a service battalion, 8th (Special or Service) Battalion was formed in April for service with the North Russian Relief Force: this battalion appears to have been formed around a cadre of former 8th Battalion officers and men. This 8th Battalion was commanded by Lieutenant Colonel W.A.T.B. Somerville DSO and arrived in Russia in May 1919, returning October 1919. I have a nominal role of officers of 8th(S) Battalion and Lieutenant Colonel Angell did not accompany them. The battalion was disbanded on its return from Russia but many officers and other ranks were reformed into a new 8th Battalion to be part of the regular establishment of the post-war MGC. The continuity between these two battalions was emphasized by the 8th Battalion regimental magazine (see attachment) which was called "The White Star", reflecting the badge of the North Russian Relief Force. Lieutenant Colonel Angell - now a Major - commanded D Company under a new CO, Lieutenant Colonel C.H.I. Jackson DSO. The battalion (22 officers and 665 other ranks) went to India on 28 February 1920, arriving Bombay 23 March 1920, where it was sent to Secunderabad. C and D Companies were then sent to Iraq for duty in the insurrection, arriving 27 August 1920. Major Angell commanded D Company throughout its time in Iraq. As far as I can tell, Major Angell returned to India in February 1921 and then went back to the Dorsets in September 1921 and served in the Malabar campaign before transferring to the Tank Corps.

As an aside to Dave, it would appear your grandfather either was part of 19th Battalion MGC, which was shipped to Russia on 16 August 1919, or went along with them on the HMT Kildonan Castle as a reinforcement for 8th Battalion. A number of officers and men of 19th Battalion formed 7th Battalion MGC on returning to Russia and 7th Battalion went to India on the same trooper as 8th Battalion.

Hope this is of some assistance to Dave and Dorset.

post-48620-1260633127.jpg

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Lieutenant Colonel J. Angell relinquished command of 8th Battalion MGC on 26 March 1919, around the time the battalion was disbanded. Shortly after, a service battalion, 8th (Special or Service) Battalion was formed in April for service with the North Russian Relief Force: this battalion appears to have been formed around a cadre of former 8th Battalion officers and men. This 8th Battalion was commanded by Lieutenant Colonel W.A.T.B. Somerville DSO and arrived in Russia in May 1919, returning October 1919. I have a nominal role of officers of 8th(S) Battalion and Lieutenant Colonel Angell did not accompany them. The battalion was disbanded on its return from Russia but many officers and other ranks were reformed into a new 8th Battalion to be part of the regular establishment of the post-war MGC. The continuity between these two battalions was emphasized by the 8th Battalion regimental magazine (see attachment) which was called "The White Star", reflecting the badge of the North Russian Relief Force. Lieutenant Colonel Angell - now a Major - commanded D Company under a new CO, Lieutenant Colonel C.H.I. Jackson DSO. The battalion (22 officers and 665 other ranks) went to India on 28 February 1920, arriving Bombay 23 March 1920, where it was sent to Secunderabad. C and D Companies were then sent to Iraq for duty in the insurrection, arriving 27 August 1920. Major Angell commanded D Company throughout its time in Iraq. As far as I can tell, Major Angell returned to India in February 1921 and then went back to the Dorsets in September 1921 and served in the Malabar campaign before transferring to the Tank Corps.

As an aside to Dave, it would appear your grandfather either was part of 19th Battalion MGC, which was shipped to Russia on 16 August 1919, or went along with them on the HMT Kildonan Castle as a reinforcement for 8th Battalion. A number of officers and men of 19th Battalion formed 7th Battalion MGC on returning to Russia and 7th Battalion went to India on the same trooper as 8th Battalion.

Hope this is of some assistance to Dave and Dorset.

John Angell was my grandfather - I have a formal photograph taken in Germany late 1918 early 1919 of all the officers but I do not have any names - do you have a bn list for that time?

post-51954-1263326723.jpg

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