Bill M. Posted 10 April , 2009 Share Posted 10 April , 2009 Gents, I am looking for data concerning the size of Zeppelin crews by model/type. I have found everything from 12 - 19 for example for the L48 (LZ95). If anyone has some hard data it would be much appreciated and if by any chance you also have the crew position names/title, for example helmsman, navigator..., that would be even better. Any and all help is welcome even if you can just point me in the right direction. Cheers Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Morgan Posted 10 April , 2009 Share Posted 10 April , 2009 Bill - here are the names and ranks of the crew of Zeppelin L31, taken from their gravestone (though in German): Heinrich Mathy Kapitanleutnant Eugen Boundange Maschinistenmaat Arthur Budwitz Bootsmannsmaat Karl Dornbusch Obermatrose Nikolaus Hemmerling Maschinistenmaat Karl Hiort Obermaschinistenmaat Ernst Kaiser Segelmachersmaat Ernst Klee Funkentelegrafieobergast Siegfried Korber Steuermann Gustav Kunischt Signalmaat Karl Mensing Maschinistenmaat Friedrich Peters Obersteuermannsmaat Heinrich Phillipp Obermatrose Friedrich Rohr Maschinistenmaat Hubert Stender Maschinistenmaat Joseph Wegener Maschinist Jochen Werner Leutnant zur See Heinrich Witthoft Bootsmannsmaat Viktor Woellert Obermaschinistenmaat Hope this is of interest. Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill M. Posted 10 April , 2009 Author Share Posted 10 April , 2009 Bill - here are the names and ranks of the crew of Zeppelin L31, taken from their gravestone (though in German): Heinrich Mathy Kapitanleutnant Eugen Boundange Maschinistenmaat Arthur Budwitz Bootsmannsmaat Karl Dornbusch Obermatrose Nikolaus Hemmerling Maschinistenmaat Karl Hiort Obermaschinistenmaat Ernst Kaiser Segelmachersmaat Ernst Klee Funkentelegrafieobergast Siegfried Korber Steuermann Gustav Kunischt Signalmaat Karl Mensing Maschinistenmaat Friedrich Peters Obersteuermannsmaat Heinrich Phillipp Obermatrose Friedrich Rohr Maschinistenmaat Hubert Stender Maschinistenmaat Joseph Wegener Maschinist Jochen Werner Leutnant zur See Heinrich Witthoft Bootsmannsmaat Viktor Woellert Obermaschinistenmaat Hope this is of interest. Tom Yes, a great help! Thanks Tom! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phil@basildon Posted 10 April , 2009 Share Posted 10 April , 2009 At different times the Zeppelin crew numbers were changed according to the circumstances. As the British defences improved against the Zeppelins they were forced to fly at higher altitudes, to acheive this it was neccessary to reduce weight. They eventually had to do away with defensive armament and hence the gunners. As the Zeppelins got bigger so did the crews manning them. The largest Zeppelin crews numbered about 22/23 men, others were fifteen or sometimes less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill M. Posted 10 April , 2009 Author Share Posted 10 April , 2009 At different times the Zeppelin crew numbers were changed according to the circumstances. As the British defences improved against the Zeppelins they were forced to fly at higher altitudes, to acheive this it was neccessary to reduce weight. They eventually had to do away with defensive armament and hence the gunners. As the Zeppelins got bigger so did the crews manning them. The largest Zeppelin crews numbered about 22/23 men, others were fifteen or sometimes less. Thanks Phil, you gents are great. Cheers Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phil@basildon Posted 10 April , 2009 Share Posted 10 April , 2009 Bill, I have a copy of "The Zeppelin Fighters" by Arch Whitehouse I will go through and find a bit more detailed information for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GraemeClarke Posted 10 April , 2009 Share Posted 10 April , 2009 Hi, Below at Cannock Chase (further to the L31 above) SL11 Wilhelm SCHRAMM Hauptmann Jakob BAUMANN Obermaschinist Hans GEITEL Leutnant Rudolf GOLTZ Vizefeldwebel Karl HASSENMULLER Feldwebel-Leutnant Bernhard JEZIORSKI Gefreiter Fritz JOURDAN Untermaschinist Karl KACHELE Untermaschinist Fritz KOPISCHKE Obersteuermann Friedrich MODINGER Obermaschinist Reinhold PORATH Obermaschinist Rudolf SENDZICK Obersteuermann Heinrich SCHLICHTING Unteroffizier Anton TRISTRAM Unteroffizier Wilhelm VOHDIN Oberleutnant Hans WINKLER Untermaschinist L32 Werner PETERSON Oberleutnant Zur See Adolf BLEY Obersignalmaat Albin BOCKSCH Obermaschinistmaat Karl BORTSCHELLER Funkentelegrafieobermaat Wilhelm BROCKHAUS Oberheizer Karl BRODRUCK Leutnant Zur See Paul DORFMULLER Maschinistenmaat Richard FANKHANEL Obermaschinistenmaat Georg HAGEDORN Obermaschinistenmaat Friedrich HEIDER Oberbootsmannsmaat Robert KLISCH Funkentelegrafieobergast Herman MAEGDLFRAU Obermaschinistenmaat Bernhard MOHR Obersegelmachersgast August MULLER Matrose Friedrich PASCHE Bootsmannsmaat Karl PAUST Obermaschinistenmaat Ewald PICARD Obersignalmaat Walter PRUSS Maschinistenmaat Paul SCHIERING Obermatrose Bernhard SCHREIBMULLER Steuermann Karl VOLKER Obermaschinistenmaat Alfred ZOPEL Oberbootsmannsmaat L48 Franz EICHLER Kapitanleutnant Heinrich AHRENS Obermaschinistenmaat Wilhelm BETZ Maat Walter DIPPMANN Obersignalmaat Wilhelm GLUCKEL Obermaschinistenmaat Paul HANNEMANN Bootsmannsmaat Heinrich HERBST Signalmaat Franz KONIG Bootsmannsmaat Wilhelm MEYER Funkentelegrafiemaat Karl MILICH Obermaschinistenmaat Michael NEUNZIG Obermaschinistenmaat Karl PLOGER Obermatrose Paul SUCHLICH Obermatrose Viktor SCHUTZE Korvettenkapitan Hermann V. STOCKUM Obermaschinistenmaat Paul WESTPHAL Stevermann Crew ranks Btsmt - Bootsmannsmaat - sailor Fk Gef - Funkgefreiter - "Funk-" is always related to radio and communication Fk Ob Gef - Funkobergefreiter Fk Ob Mt - Funkobermaat Fw Mt - Feuerwerksmaat - ammo and explosives Fwk Mt - the same Masch Hpt Gef - Maschinenhauptgefreiter - Engines, Technicians Masch Mt- Maschinenmaat Masch Ob Mt - Maschinenobermaat Masch Ob Gef - Maschinenobergefreiter Matr Ob Gef - Matrosenobergefreiter - sailor Mech - Mechaniker Mech Hpt Gef - Mechanikerhauptgefreiter Mech Ob Gef - Mechanikerobergefreiter Mtr Hpt Gef - Matrosenhauptgefreiter Mtr Ob Gef - Matrosenobergefreiter Ob Btsmt - OberbootsmaatOb Masch - Obermaschinist - engines Ob Mech Mt - Obermechanikermaat Ob Strm - Obersteuermann - navigations personnel San Mt - Sanitätsmaat - medic San Ob Gef - Sanitätsobergefreiter Schrb Mt - Schreibmaat - administration Sign Gef - Signalgefreiter - signal personnel Sign Ob Mt - Signalobermaat Stbs Ob FK Mst - Stabsoberfunkmeister Stbs Fwk - Stabsfeuerwerker - ammo,explosives Stbd Masch - Stabsmaschinist Strm Mt - Steuermannsmaat Ver Fel?w (overtyped see attachement) - Verwaltungsfeldwebel - administration Vern Mt - ? typo? Verw Of Gef - Verwaltungsobergefreiter Waffenw - Waffenwart - weapons, arms Zim Ob Gef - Zimmerer Obergefreiter - tailor Zim Ob Mt - Zimmermanns Obermaat (Soldat) private (Gefreiter) corporal (Obergefreiter) lance-corporal (British rank) (Stabsgefreiter) staff corporal (Unteroffizier) sergeant (Feldwebel) master-sergeant (Wachtmeister) senior artillery NCO (Leutnant) lieutenant (Oberleutnant) first lieutenant (Kanonier) artilleryman (private) (Sanitäter) medical private (Funker) communications/signal private (Pionier) engineer (private) Regards, Graeme Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill M. Posted 10 April , 2009 Author Share Posted 10 April , 2009 I don't know what to say other than you gents are just terrific! This forum is so full of information and folks willing to share that it just stagers me. Once again thank you all for all your help. Cheers Bill Hi, Below at Cannock Chase (further to the L31 above) SL11 Wilhelm SCHRAMM Hauptmann Jakob BAUMANN Obermaschinist Hans GEITEL Leutnant Rudolf GOLTZ Vizefeldwebel Karl HASSENMULLER Feldwebel-Leutnant Bernhard JEZIORSKI Gefreiter Fritz JOURDAN Untermaschinist Karl KACHELE Untermaschinist Fritz KOPISCHKE Obersteuermann Friedrich MODINGER Obermaschinist Reinhold PORATH Obermaschinist Rudolf SENDZICK Obersteuermann Heinrich SCHLICHTING Unteroffizier Anton TRISTRAM Unteroffizier Wilhelm VOHDIN Oberleutnant Hans WINKLER Untermaschinist L32 Werner PETERSON Oberleutnant Zur See Adolf BLEY Obersignalmaat Albin BOCKSCH Obermaschinistmaat Karl BORTSCHELLER Funkentelegrafieobermaat Wilhelm BROCKHAUS Oberheizer Karl BRODRUCK Leutnant Zur See Paul DORFMULLER Maschinistenmaat Richard FANKHANEL Obermaschinistenmaat Georg HAGEDORN Obermaschinistenmaat Friedrich HEIDER Oberbootsmannsmaat Robert KLISCH Funkentelegrafieobergast Herman MAEGDLFRAU Obermaschinistenmaat Bernhard MOHR Obersegelmachersgast August MULLER Matrose Friedrich PASCHE Bootsmannsmaat Karl PAUST Obermaschinistenmaat Ewald PICARD Obersignalmaat Walter PRUSS Maschinistenmaat Paul SCHIERING Obermatrose Bernhard SCHREIBMULLER Steuermann Karl VOLKER Obermaschinistenmaat Alfred ZOPEL Oberbootsmannsmaat L48 Franz EICHLER Kapitanleutnant Heinrich AHRENS Obermaschinistenmaat Wilhelm BETZ Maat Walter DIPPMANN Obersignalmaat Wilhelm GLUCKEL Obermaschinistenmaat Paul HANNEMANN Bootsmannsmaat Heinrich HERBST Signalmaat Franz KONIG Bootsmannsmaat Wilhelm MEYER Funkentelegrafiemaat Karl MILICH Obermaschinistenmaat Michael NEUNZIG Obermaschinistenmaat Karl PLOGER Obermatrose Paul SUCHLICH Obermatrose Viktor SCHUTZE Korvettenkapitan Hermann V. STOCKUM Obermaschinistenmaat Paul WESTPHAL Stevermann Crew ranks Btsmt - Bootsmannsmaat - sailor Fk Gef - Funkgefreiter - "Funk-" is always related to radio and communication Fk Ob Gef - Funkobergefreiter Fk Ob Mt - Funkobermaat Fw Mt - Feuerwerksmaat - ammo and explosives Fwk Mt - the same Masch Hpt Gef - Maschinenhauptgefreiter - Engines, Technicians Masch Mt- Maschinenmaat Masch Ob Mt - Maschinenobermaat Masch Ob Gef - Maschinenobergefreiter Matr Ob Gef - Matrosenobergefreiter - sailor Mech - Mechaniker Mech Hpt Gef - Mechanikerhauptgefreiter Mech Ob Gef - Mechanikerobergefreiter Mtr Hpt Gef - Matrosenhauptgefreiter Mtr Ob Gef - Matrosenobergefreiter Ob Btsmt - OberbootsmaatOb Masch - Obermaschinist - engines Ob Mech Mt - Obermechanikermaat Ob Strm - Obersteuermann - navigations personnel San Mt - Sanitätsmaat - medic San Ob Gef - Sanitätsobergefreiter Schrb Mt - Schreibmaat - administration Sign Gef - Signalgefreiter - signal personnel Sign Ob Mt - Signalobermaat Stbs Ob FK Mst - Stabsoberfunkmeister Stbs Fwk - Stabsfeuerwerker - ammo,explosives Stbd Masch - Stabsmaschinist Strm Mt - Steuermannsmaat Ver Fel?w (overtyped see attachement) - Verwaltungsfeldwebel - administration Vern Mt - ? typo? Verw Of Gef - Verwaltungsobergefreiter Waffenw - Waffenwart - weapons, arms Zim Ob Gef - Zimmerer Obergefreiter - tailor Zim Ob Mt - Zimmermanns Obermaat (Soldat) private (Gefreiter) corporal (Obergefreiter) lance-corporal (British rank) (Stabsgefreiter) staff corporal (Unteroffizier) sergeant (Feldwebel) master-sergeant (Wachtmeister) senior artillery NCO (Leutnant) lieutenant (Oberleutnant) first lieutenant (Kanonier) artilleryman (private) (Sanitäter) medical private (Funker) communications/signal private (Pionier) engineer (private) Regards, Graeme Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesse Posted 15 April , 2009 Share Posted 15 April , 2009 I have a photo of the LZ97 crew, showing 20 men. Jesse Gents, I am looking for data concerning the size of Zeppelin crews by model/type. I have found everything from 12 - 19 for example for the L48 (LZ95). If anyone has some hard data it would be much appreciated and if by any chance you also have the crew position names/title, for example helmsman, navigator..., that would be even better. Any and all help is welcome even if you can just point me in the right direction. Cheers Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phil@basildon Posted 16 April , 2009 Share Posted 16 April , 2009 I have found this in a book I have had for years! LZ18 capacity (Mc) 27,000 crew 18 LZ21oooo"ooooooo20,870 o"o i17 SL3oooo "ooooooo 32,410o "oo17 LZ38ooo "ooooooo 35,800oo"oo15 You will note that the larger (and later) airships carried fewer crew. This was because of the ever increasing need to fly at higher altitudes to avoid the defences over England. Eighteen appears to be the maximum number of crew carried during the Great War, the only examples of a larger crew are the postwar British (R33/34) and American (ZR-1) developements which each carried a crew of twenty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiegeGunner Posted 16 April , 2009 Share Posted 16 April , 2009 Tom Morgan will no doubt correct me if I'm mistaken, but I think that all the communal graves at Cannock Chase represent airships lost with all hands, so the variation in crew size is interesting. A glance through the 22-man crew list for L32 doesn't reveal any obvious passengers or technical personnel with out-of-the-ordinary specialisations. There are, however, significant variations in the number and ranks of officers aboard the four airships. As height and therefore weight became more critical, I wonder whether the size of the individual crew members became an issue? As they weren't required to engage in hand-to-hand combat, would smaller, lighter men perhaps have been favoured as a way of maximising the number of pairs of hands that could be carried? Graeme's listing of crew ranks and functions is very helpful, but does contain one error – a Zimmerer/Zimmermann is not a tailor (which is 'Schneider') but a carpenter. Mick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phil@basildon Posted 16 April , 2009 Share Posted 16 April , 2009 carried? Graeme's listing of crew ranks and functions is very helpful, but does contain one error – a Zimmerer/Zimmermann is not a tailor (which is 'Schneider') but a carpenter. Mick The Zeppelins carried a sailmaker to repair small tears and holes in the gasbags, could this be what was meant? The crew figures I gave may well be the operating crew and may exclude the likes of gunners. The later airships had two engines in one gondola instead of each engine in its own gondola thereby saving one mechanic. The mechanics originally were expected to man the guns when under attack but this proved impractical under certain conditions hence the extra gunners. At altitude the men had to wear heavy clothing because of the extreme cold, down to -30C in some cases and airship crews often suffered frostbite. As the war progressed to gain the extra height required even the defensive armament was eliminated to save weight and even though the size of airships increased the number of strengthening ribs was reduced. There is no evidence to suggest that smaller men were recruited to man Zeppelins probably because it was not deemed neccessary at first, later on they could not let all that experience go to waste. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiegeGunner Posted 16 April , 2009 Share Posted 16 April , 2009 There is a Segelmachersmaat in the crew list for L31 and an Obersegelmachersgast on the list for L32. These are both sailmakers. There's no doubt whatever that a Zimmerer/Zimmermann is a carpenter, but although the trade appears in Graeme's list, there are actually none of them among the four crews buried at Cannock Chase. Phil's explanation re small crewmen makes perfect sense, but as the Germans didn't have bantam regiments (I don't think), there must have been numbers of little blokes spoiling to get into the fight somewhere (U-boats, perhaps). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phil@basildon Posted 16 April , 2009 Share Posted 16 April , 2009 A carpenter would be logical on a Schute-Lanz airship which had a wooden frame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jempie Posted 16 April , 2009 Share Posted 16 April , 2009 Hi! The LZ 37 shot down over Gontrode 7-5-1915 had a crew of 9 ! There was one survival! (Mühler ?) The 2 Oberleutnants (Oblt. Kurt Ackermann & Otto von der Haeghen) are still buried at Gent-West under a civil memorial grave erected 1916 if I have it correct and further Lt. Müller which was originally buried at Gent-West was transported , probably on special request of his family to Bonn to be reburied there again. The other 5 were later (1956-57 ?) brought over to Vladslo German Friedhof to be reburied there ! Gustav Ruske, Hermann Kirchner,Otto Scwarz, Karl Mahr and Karl Claus. But notice only 9 crew on board 1915! Its even so I believe her normal crew before it was based in Belgium was in fact 8 people! mvr Jempie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiegeGunner Posted 16 April , 2009 Share Posted 16 April , 2009 I don't know whether any of the airships whose crews are buried at Cannock Chase were built by Schütte-Lanz, but the crew lists certainly don't include any members directly described as carpenters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill M. Posted 16 April , 2009 Author Share Posted 16 April , 2009 Thanks gents, the information is building. Cheers Bill M. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aspern Posted 16 April , 2009 Share Posted 16 April , 2009 Hi! The LZ 37 shot down over Gontrode 7-5-1915 had a crew of 9 ! There was one survival! (Mühler ?) The 2 Oberleutnants (Oblt. Kurt Ackermann & Otto von der Haeghen) are still buried at Gent-West under a civil memorial grave erected 1916 if I have it correct and further Lt. Müller which was originally buried at Gent-West was transported , probably on special request of his family to Bonn to be reburied there again. The other 5 were later (1956-57 ?) brought over to Vladslo German Friedhof to be reburied there ! Gustav Ruske, Hermann Kirchner,Otto Scwarz, Karl Mahr and Karl Claus. But notice only 9 crew on board 1915! Its even so I believe her normal crew before it was based in Belgium was in fact 8 people! mvr Jempie. LZ.37's crew number is interesting. The Zeppelin was an 'm-class'. From statements made by survivors of Zeppelin L.7 - another 'm-class' - which was shot down over the North Sea in May 1916, the standard crew allocated to a Navy 'm-class' was 22, of which 18 would fly - the remaining four allowed for absences due to sickness, etc. So, I wonder why the Army's LZ.37 flew with only nine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phil@basildon Posted 16 April , 2009 Share Posted 16 April , 2009 Hi! The LZ 37 shot down over Gontrode 7-5-1915 had a crew of 9 ! There was one survival! (Mühler ?) But notice only 9 crew on board 1915! Its even so I believe her normal crew before it was based in Belgium was in fact 8 people! mvr Jempie. The LZ37 was on a special mission to give a number of airship designers, specialists and technicians from the Zeppelin factory some firsthand knowledge of the various problems experienced by the crews on active service. There was in fact 28 persons on board the LZ37 on the night it was downed. The LZ37 came down near Ghent on German held territory so any civilians on board would have been returned to Germany for burial as may have been some of the crew. LZ37 was the first ever Zeppelin to be downed, it was not shot down but destroyed by incendary bombs dropped on to it at 7,000 feet causing the hydrogen to explode. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobL Posted 16 April , 2009 Share Posted 16 April , 2009 Interesting relic from the downing of LZ37 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southside Bucky Posted 17 April , 2009 Share Posted 17 April , 2009 ...The LZ 37 shot down over Gontrode 7-5-1915 had a crew of 9 ! There was one survival! (Mühler ?) Alfred Muhler's survival was nothing short of miraculous: He was trapped in the forward Gondola when it broke free from the burning LZ37. It fell from around 6000ft and crashed through the roof of a convent. He was hurled out of the Gondola and landed on a bed! Regards. Bucky Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phil@basildon Posted 17 April , 2009 Share Posted 17 April , 2009 The unluckiest person was the one killed by the falling Zeppelin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southside Bucky Posted 17 April , 2009 Share Posted 17 April , 2009 The LZ37 was on a special mission to give a number of airship designers, specialists and technicians from the Zeppelin factory some firsthand knowledge of the various problems experienced by the crews on active service. There was in fact 28 persons on board the LZ37 on the night it was downed... That's interesting, Phil. Would you mind if I ask where that info comes from? Reason I ask is; the books 'The Air Defence of Britain' by C. Cole & E.F. Cheesman, and 'Zeppelin' by R.L. Rimell, both state a crew of ten. That is, nine killed and one survivor. Cheers. Bucky Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phil@basildon Posted 17 April , 2009 Share Posted 17 April , 2009 That's interesting, Phil. Would you mind if I ask where that info comes from? Reason I ask is; The books 'The Air Defence of Britain' by C. Cole & E.F. Cheesman, and 'Zeppelin' by R.L. Rimell, both state a crew of ten. That is, nine killed and one survivor. Cheers. Bucky This is from "The Zeppelin Fighters" by Arch Whitehouse I might add that 9 seems to be a very small crew for a Zeppelin, barely enough to operate the vessel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southside Bucky Posted 17 April , 2009 Share Posted 17 April , 2009 Ah, right...With topmost respect to Mr Whitehouse, and your good self, I think the two references I quoted are the more reliable sources of information. Thanks for the quick reply. Bucky Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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