252nd Tunnelling Coy

[Jaycee]

Hi All

I am trying to find more information on the 252nd Tunnelling Coy.

My Great Grandfather James Henry Cowell.He was in the Royal West Kent Regiment No. 5652. and then he was in the 252nd Tunnelling Coy.No 112906.

Why would he have been in 2 regiments and have 2 service numbers ?

On his daughters birth cert in dec 1914 it states that he was a Private Royal West Kent Reg. Coal Miner.

His MIC doesn't say when he entered a field of war.

We do know that he didn't enlist until after his son James was taken as a POW.

There is a "write up" in the local paper about his death it says he had been in Germany for over a year before his death.There is also a photo of him in the paper.

I would be grateful for any information or pointers as to where to find more information

I do have this from the CWGC site

COWELL, JAMES HENRYInitials:J HNationality:United KingdomRank:Lance CorporalRegiment/Service:Royal EngineersUnit Text:252nd Tunnelling Coy.Age:47Date of Death:16/02/1917Service No:12906Additional information:Son of William and Elizabeth Cowell, of Allerton Bywater; husband of Martha Cowell, of Garden Cottage, Allerton Bywater, near Castleford, Yorks.Casualty Type:Commonwealth War DeadGrave/Memorial Reference:II. J. 18.Cemetery:AUCHONVILLERS MILITARY CEMETERY

Thankyou

Jan

[GraemeClarke]

Jan,

The Soldiers Died in the Great War records that he was born and resided in Allerton Bywater, Yorkshire and

enlisted at Castleford, Yorkshire.

He 'Died of Wounds' in France/Flanders.

Nothing unusual in having 2 service numbers. Strangely the men did not have one service number for the duration of their time. If they transferred to other units they were given a NEW number, they did not take their old one with them.

A bit about Tunnelling Companies here

http://www.1914-1918.net/tunnelcoyre.htm

He MAY be on the following RoH (but unlikely as it is a Cambridgeshire one)

http://www.roll-of-honour.org/Cambridgeshi...astleCamps.html

Regards,

Graeme

[kenf48]

Hi Jan,

As to pointers for further information about the work of the Tunnelling Companies you could do no better than get hold of a copy of Beneath Flanders Fields The Tunnellers War1914 -1918 Peter Barton Peter Doyle and Johan Vandewalle ISBN 1- 86227-357-X (2004) (paperback 2007) Spellmount publishing. There are 4 index references to the 252 Cy (mainly oral accounts). This is a great book and well worth the investment if you've not seen it especially as you have a 6/- a day man among your forebears!

There is a section that recounts how the tunnellers were recruited, they were not volunteers but it seems to be the army was trawled for men with clay kicking and mining skills.

Coal mining was a reserve occupation, so it would be likely your ancestor volunteered initially in the infantry in 1914. The tunneling companies were first formed in January 1915 and as Graeme's reference shows 252 were engaged on the Somme by 1916. I would think the Royal Engineers Museum would give you a date for when 252 Coy was formed if no-one here can help.y

Auchonvilliers is incidentally quite close to the Hawthorn Redoubt which was blown on the first day of the Somme http://www.iwm.org.uk/server/show/ConMediaFile.7143 I'm not an expert but I would think tunneling activity carried on throughout the campaign. You could search the cemetery record to see if there were other casualties that date, which might tell you if it was a mining accident or some other cause of death.

regards

Ken

Ken

[matthew lucas]

now did you get hold of simon jones on here,? send him a message, likesie Peter Barton as mentioned its vety good book, not a lot on 252 but would be very interesting for you, also some good stuff on Norton-Griffiths as well.

Bare in mind reservd occupations only happened in ww2, hence the fact that coalminers ect volunteered in such large numbers in 1914 caused quite a problem in regards to coal production, and it was only when Norton-Griffiths came on the seen that a better use was found for them, letting the experts be experts! ie tunneling Companies

matt

[sotonmate]

Jan

He is the only RE buried there for 1917. As this Cemetery was also used by Field Ambulances and it has been quoted that he died of wounds he could have colleagues killed and buried elsewhere from the same incident,even missing and therefore possibly on the Thiepval Memorial.

The War Diary for 252 TC RE will tell you,under WO95/406,which runs from the first operational duties of the unit in France in Oct 1915 to April 1919,and is at Kew.

Sotonmate

[Jaycee]

Thankyou All for your help and advice as to where to look

Matt, I have tried to contact Simon Jones but keep getiing the message "Sorry, but you do not have permission to use this feature. If you are not logged in, you may do so using the form below if available." I am logged in so don't know where I am going wrong

I will try to contact Simon again

I am going to look for the book while I am in town this week , if I can't get it in town will order it

[Simon Jones]

Hi Jan

It looks like not just anyone can contact me! I have just this morning posted the last chapters of my book on Underground Warfare in WW1 to the publisher which has taken up a great deal of my time lately. It contains quite a bit on 252 Company in 1916. I am not sure if I have anything on them in February 1917 but I'll have a look.

EDIT: Unfortunately I only have their War Diary up to the end of January 1917.

Simon

[punjab612]

It contains quite a bit on 252 Company in 1916. I am not sure if I have anything on them in February 1917 but I'll have a look.

Hi Simon

Any chance of a quick look up in Diary for 252nd TC for any mentions of 121952 L/Cpl Doctor Baxter, my wife's Gt Uncle. Hs MM was gazetted 11/11/1916 and his MSM on 1/1/1917

Thanks

Peter

[George1916]

I wonder if he is related to

Name:COWELLInitials:ENationality:United KingdomRank:SapperRegiment/Service:Royal EngineersUnit Text:252nd Tunnelling Coy.Date of Death:13/02/1916Service No:121807Casualty Type:Commonwealth War DeadGrave/Memorial Reference:II. B. 33.Cemetery:AUCHONVILLERS MILITARY CEMETERY

This man also has a Castleford connection.

[Simon Jones]

Jan

I can’t add much I am afraid.

It was not unusual for men in their late forties and fifties to be serving in Tunnelling Companies because miners were enlisted solely for their experience underground although many proved too unfit for active service.

He is not mentioned in the 252 War Diary up to the end of January 1916. His RE number suggests enlistment in early September 1915 although tunnellers went to France within one to two weeks of enlisting at this time, as did the man with the number prior, although the man with the following number did not. As you mentioned his medal index card has no date in theatre, suggesting that he did not go to France until 1916. His number also suggests to me that he enlisted in the UK (almost certainly as a Tunneller’s Mate) rather than transferring in France from the Royal West Kents. The delay is odd, unless he did enlist later and the numbers are out of sync. This would conform to your information that he enlisted when his son was captured, i.e. about February 1916.

Peter – WD page emailed.

Simon

[Guest Rieslingnut]

Hello Peter

Did you make any progress researching Doctor Baxter? I am a great-grandson of his and I'm trying to find out more about the activities of the 252nd Co Royal Engineers and how Doctor Baxter won his DCM and MSM

Regards

Jonathan

QUOTE (Simon Jones @ Apr 11 2009, 12:55 PM) It contains quite a bit on 252 Company in 1916. I am not sure if I have anything on them in February 1917 but I'll have a look.

Hi Simon

Any chance of a quick look up in Diary for 252nd TC for any mentions of 121952 L/Cpl Doctor Baxter, my wife's Gt Uncle. Hs MM was gazetted 11/11/1916 and his MSM on 1/1/1917

Thanks

Peter

[punjab612]

Hello Peter

Did you make any progress researching Doctor Baxter? I am a great-grandson of his and I'm trying to find out more about the activities of the 252nd Co Royal Engineers and how Doctor Baxter won his DCM and MSM

Hello Jonathon

Yes I did get a bit further with my research on Doctor B, thanks mainly to some newspaper cuttings sent by Kenneth Baxter. I have also a bit of information about the areas where 252 TC were operating. I don't think there is any way we can find out exactly what his MM was awarded for, though the award of it is mentioned in the war diary. The MSM was awarded in the New Year's Honours list for 'Devotion' so it is not for any specific deed..

Unfortnately I am rather tied up over the next few weeks so I don't think I will be able to reply fully for a while.

I think it will be better if we continue this off the forum so I will attempt to send you my e-mail address to allow thgis.

Peter