MGCs in the RND

[billb_gh]

I'm not sure this is in the right section as, although, I am researching my Grandfather's war history; he was in Nelson Battalion, RND, it is really a question about the mgc's in the RND. After Gallipoli his service card says he got leave in the UK (contrary to the books I've read that said only officers were given home leave and ORs were given leave in Malta).

At this time his record says "D.O. No17 Machine gun company, Grantham", which I have learnt is the machine gun training camp in Lincolnshire. It also says "Received D.O. Machine Gun Company B'ford, No 1" on 12^th May 1916. The record goes on to say on 1^st June 1916 "Entrained to rejoin unit. Nelson Battalion", then on 6^th June it says "Rejoined Battalion France (from leave to England)".

I understood that machine gun companies at this time were formed at brigade level so does the record mean that he was not in the mgc or was there a different structure for the RND that means he rejoined Nelson? He only talked about the war 2 or 3 times and didn't mention machine guns as far as I know. He collected RND cap badges, which he left me, but there is no Machine Gun badge, this of course doesn't mean there wasn't one at some point.

Also, when his service record has entries such as D.O …. – what does the abbreviation D.O mean?

Thanks for any help,

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Bill

[horatio2]

Without having all the detail, I would say he was sent back to UK to do a machine gun course at Grantham after the withdrawal from Gallipoli in early 1916. On completion he re-joined Nelson Bn. shortly after it arrived in France, just as it was beginning training for operations with the BEF. Lots of RND men were being trained at this time for the new (to them) weapons that they had not had in the MEF.

DO = Divisional Order (or draft order).

[billb_gh]

Without having all the detail, I would say he was sent back to UK to do a machine gun course at Grantham after the withdrawal from Gallipoli in early 1916. On completion he re-joined Nelson Bn. shortly after it arrived in France, just as it was beginning training for operations with the BEF. Lots of RND men were being trained at this time for the new (to them) weapons that they had not had in the MEF.

DO = Divisional Order (or draft order).

Thanks for the quick reply, does it mean that people were being trained on a just-in-case basis so they could act as a sort of reserve?

Bill

[horatio2]

No - front-line troops. Once in the BEF the RND formed Machine Gun Companies at Brigade level (188, 189, 190 MG Coys) and also had Lewis machine gunners in each battalion. By 1918 the 63rd (RN) Division had a machine gun battalion (63rd MG Battalion). Some army men were attached from the Machine Gun Corps but most machine-gunners at battalion, brigade and divisional level were RND sailors and marines.

[billb_gh]

No - front-line troops. Once in the BEF the RND formed Machine Gun Companies at Brigade level (188, 189, 190 MG Coys) and also had Lewis machine gunners in each battalion. By 1918 the 63rd (RN) Division had a machine gun battalion (63rd MG Battalion). Some army men were attached from the Machine Gun Corps but most machine-gunners at battalion, brigade and divisional level were RND sailors and marines.

So as he 'rejoined' his battalion this would indicate he was a Lewis gunner as I assume that all the Vickers guns were in the brigade mgc.

In June 1917 he got influenza then his record says "D.O. 237 (4th Res Battalion) Reported and taken on strength pm ex Nelson Battalion (A1127)". I take it from this reference to ex Nelson that he was never a part of the brigade MGC.

Bill

[horatio2]

Probably not. His RND Record Card should make it quite clear if he was transferred from Nelson Bn.to 189Bde MG Coy.

[billb_gh]

Probably not. His RND Record Card should make it quite clear if he was transferred from Nelson Bn.to 189Bde MG Coy.

No mention at all. This has been a big help.

Thanks

[per ardua per mare per terram]

The withdrawal from Gallipoli gave the opportunity for people to be sent on courses, to be assessed for promotion and generally avail themselves of the full resources available to thm in order to get more a efficient unit. it also gave the service a chance to wrangle over the future of the Division.

[billb_gh]

Thanks for this insight, there is no mention of this sort of ongoing training in Jerrold's or Swale's books, but it makes sense. We concluded last night that, as he rejoined Nelson btn, he was probably assigned to a Lewis gun. Was this a specialist company in the battalion? The Division Trench Standing Orders (1917) seems to place more emphasis on the Lewis gun for front line defense. Where would I be able to find the battalion roll?

[horatio2]

The Lewis gunners were not a "specialist company" within a battalion but they were specially trained teams. The book "Nelson at War", to which you refer, records that the RND battalions (in this case Nelson Bn.) were in training on new weapons (eg Lewis and Vickers MGs and trench mortars) and new tactics for nearly two months with the BEF before considered fit to take over the line (vide pp. 93 - 96). There are no RND "battalion rolls".

[billb_gh]

Thank you, that's useful to know.