Howarth1918 Posted 3 April , 2009 Share Posted 3 April , 2009 Hi Everyone, am new to this! Trying to find details on a NZEF soldier who was KIA on June 7th, 1917 at Messines Ridge. Just trying to confirm if Harold was awarded the BW Medal and Victory Medal or the Trio (1914-15 Star, BWM & Victory Medal). His service number was 24221. I'm just trying to put his plaque with the appopriate medal combo. Thanks in advance to NZ pals.............. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZackNZ Posted 3 April , 2009 Share Posted 3 April , 2009 Some basic references for you: Surname PIFFARD Given Name Harold Reginald Graham Sherard Category Nominal Roll Vol. 2 Regimental Number 24221 Rank Private Next of Kin Title Harold H Next of Kin Surname PIFFARD Next of Kin Relationship Father Next of Kin Address 18 Addison Road Bedford Park Chiswick London Roll 33 Page 12 Occupation Clerk Source: Nominal roll http://muse.aucklandmuseum.com/databases/C...8&Ordinal=1 http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_detail...asualty=1738188 http://archway.archives.govt.nz/ViewFullItem.do?OID=10931591 Cheers Zack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clive_hughes Posted 3 April , 2009 Share Posted 3 April , 2009 What a coincidence, back in March 1981, when I collected medals, I bought two NZEF groups including H.R.G.S.Piffard's British War & Victory Medal pair (for £15, you may like to know!!). Disposed of them for a small profit in September 1982 to a London dealer, and the rest of the collection in 1988. Unfortunately, I had no means of researching his entitlement and so can't say whether or not he earned the Star. Hopefully some of the sources quoted by zacknz may help you there. LST_164 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaron Nelson Posted 4 April , 2009 Share Posted 4 April , 2009 Hi, Private Piffard was in the 13th Reinforcements, the same as my relative who was killed at the Somme. Private Piffard would not have received the 1914-1915 star. He needed to be in a theatre of war prior to tthe end of 1915 to qualify for this. EG NZ soldiers who fought at Galipoli did qualify. Providing Private Priffard suffered no sickness this would be a very brief summary of his army service. Late May 1916 he left NZ I beleive on the Willochra on the 27th of May. Arrived England and spent some time at Sling Training Camp. The 13th reinforcements moved across to France in early September, just in time for the attack on the 15th of September 1916. He would have seen action at the Somme. A very good book to get for NZers at the Somme is "On my way to the Somme"by Andrew Macdonald. The Canterbury battalions are frequently mentioned in this book. After the Somme battles they moved North to Armentieries where they stayed till about May 1917. They then moved to the sector opposite Messines village. 7th of June 1917 was the start of the battle of Messines ( I have another relative killed in that battle as well) The New Zealanders attacked directly on Messines Village itself with heavy loss. A good Book for the Messines battle is "Mud beneath my boots" by Alan Marriot. Also another good book would be "Armentieries and the Somme"written by Cecil Malthus who actually served in the Canterbury Battalion, the same as Piffard, in the lead up to the Somme battle in September 1916. Cheers Aaron. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZackNZ Posted 4 April , 2009 Share Posted 4 April , 2009 Brigadier General Herbert Hart in his diary entry for June 7th, 1917 states “that 19 mines containing 600 tons of explosive were fired at zero (hour) and shook the ground for miles.” Source: The Devil’s Own War page 182 - 183 The explosion of the mines killed an estimated 10,000 Germans and was apparently heard in London. Zack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howarth1918 Posted 4 April , 2009 Author Share Posted 4 April , 2009 Hi, Private Piffard was in the 13th Reinforcements, the same as my relative who was killed at the Somme. Private Piffard would not have received the 1914-1915 star. He needed to be in a theatre of war prior to tthe end of 1915 to qualify for this. EG NZ soldiers who fought at Galipoli did qualify. Providing Private Priffard suffered no sickness this would be a very brief summary of his army service. Late May 1916 he left NZ I beleive on the Willochra on the 27th of May. Arrived England and spent some time at Sling Training Camp. The 13th reinforcements moved across to France in early September, just in time for the attack on the 15th of September 1916. He would have seen action at the Somme. A very good book to get for NZers at the Somme is "On my way to the Somme"by Andrew Macdonald. The Canterbury battalions are frequently mentioned in this book. After the Somme battles they moved North to Armentieries where they stayed till about May 1917. They then moved to the sector opposite Messines village. 7th of June 1917 was the start of the battle of Messines ( I have another relative killed in that battle as well) The New Zealanders attacked directly on Messines Village itself with heavy loss. A good Book for the Messines battle is "Mud beneath my boots" by Alan Marriot. Also another good book would be "Armentieries and the Somme"written by Cecil Malthus who actually served in the Canterbury Battalion, the same as Piffard, in the lead up to the Somme battle in September 1916. Cheers Aaron. Hi Aaron, Thanks so much for the information. I have an Uncle in New Zealand but unfortunately he is unable to do research for me. Was very disappointed when I read my Grandfathers copy of "A Popular History of the Great War" which is always a reference point for me. No real or proper mention was made of the New Zealand contribution to Messines Ridge! Anyway, at least I can now try to put Private Piffards original plaque on display with a pair of medals (BWM & Victory medals which I bought erased) as a tribute to my New Zealand contacts/family. I'm not related to the Piffard's but at least his service can be remembered. Best Wishes, Craig... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howarth1918 Posted 4 April , 2009 Author Share Posted 4 April , 2009 What a coincidence, back in March 1981, when I collected medals, I bought two NZEF groups including H.R.G.S.Piffard's British War & Victory Medal pair (for £15, you may like to know!!). Disposed of them for a small profit in September 1982 to a London dealer, and the rest of the collection in 1988. Unfortunately, I had no means of researching his entitlement and so can't say whether or not he earned the Star. Hopefully some of the sources quoted by zacknz may help you there. LST_164 Hi, Thanks for the information! The odds of me finding the WW1 pair again to match with his plaque are very, very, very slim. But oh well, I will keep trying to bring the group together in honour of his service. Best Wishes, Craig... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howarth1918 Posted 4 April , 2009 Author Share Posted 4 April , 2009 Some basic references for you: Surname PIFFARD Given Name Harold Reginald Graham Sherard Category Nominal Roll Vol. 2 Regimental Number 24221 Rank Private Next of Kin Title Harold H Next of Kin Surname PIFFARD Next of Kin Relationship Father Next of Kin Address 18 Addison Road Bedford Park Chiswick London Roll 33 Page 12 Occupation Clerk Source: Nominal roll http://muse.aucklandmuseum.com/databases/C...8&Ordinal=1 http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_detail...asualty=1738188 http://archway.archives.govt.nz/ViewFullItem.do?OID=10931591 Cheers Zack Hi Zack, Thanks for the info. I will check out the sites that you listed. Best Wishes, Craig... Hi, Private Piffard was in the 13th Reinforcements, the same as my relative who was killed at the Somme. Private Piffard would not have received the 1914-1915 star. He needed to be in a theatre of war prior to tthe end of 1915 to qualify for this. EG NZ soldiers who fought at Galipoli did qualify. Providing Private Priffard suffered no sickness this would be a very brief summary of his army service. Late May 1916 he left NZ I beleive on the Willochra on the 27th of May. Arrived England and spent some time at Sling Training Camp. The 13th reinforcements moved across to France in early September, just in time for the attack on the 15th of September 1916. He would have seen action at the Somme. A very good book to get for NZers at the Somme is "On my way to the Somme"by Andrew Macdonald. The Canterbury battalions are frequently mentioned in this book. After the Somme battles they moved North to Armentieries where they stayed till about May 1917. They then moved to the sector opposite Messines village. 7th of June 1917 was the start of the battle of Messines ( I have another relative killed in that battle as well) The New Zealanders attacked directly on Messines Village itself with heavy loss. A good Book for the Messines battle is "Mud beneath my boots" by Alan Marriot. Also another good book would be "Armentieries and the Somme"written by Cecil Malthus who actually served in the Canterbury Battalion, the same as Piffard, in the lead up to the Somme battle in September 1916. Cheers Aaron. Thanks so much for the info Aaron. Best Wishes, Craig... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaron Nelson Posted 4 April , 2009 Share Posted 4 April , 2009 Hi, The attack on Messines Village went very well from a strategic point of view. the NZ losses were high, however it was the 3 following days that really took its toll. After the mines exploded the Germans basically retreated and then completly bombarded the area. The New Zealanders experienced the worst shelling at this time probably througout the entire war in the days after the initial attack. The battle of Messines has one of three New Zealand memorials built in France and Belguim, such was the importance of that battle to New Zealand. Our other two are at Somme and at Passchendale, our worst day in military history ever. 12th October 1917. Cheers Aaron. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clive_hughes Posted 4 April , 2009 Share Posted 4 April , 2009 CraigS, well, if nothing else it proves that the pair still exist, as opposed to being melted down in the 70s for silver or whatever! And that the plaque had been parted from them before 1981. They were in about EF or better condition, according to my old collection register. I don't think that the firm I sold them to still exists, even supposing their records went back that far. Someone else today on a slightly different topic has suggested registering wanted medals on Medal Tracker, part of the Token Publishing website. The British Medals Forum site might also have links to other "wanted" medal sites. Use as many as you can, to spread the word as it were. And the very best of luck to you! I was able to reunite several WW1 sets in my time, so it can be done! LST_164 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aconnolly Posted 5 April , 2009 Share Posted 5 April , 2009 Craig The Memorial at Messines Ridge lists the names of some 839 members of the NZEF killed in the battle; of these, 772 have no known grave. The village of Messines is twinned with Featherstone where so many of the NZEF trained before departure for war. Andrew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZackNZ Posted 2 May , 2009 Share Posted 2 May , 2009 Craig A summary overview for you – I’ve emailed you the file. Harold Reginald Graham Sherrard Piffard was born in London on 28 May 1895. His father Harold lived at 18 Addison Rd 18 Addison Rd, Bedford Park Chiswick London. Piffard was a clerk working for the NZ Loan Co in Blenheim. He was staying with a friend, Archibald McCallum. He attested at Trentham on 9 Feb 1916 but had enlisted on 8 Feb at Trentham. In his attestation form you will see that he had been rejected as unfit on an earlier occasion (no date given) perhaps for poor eyesight. His description on enlistment was apparent age: 20 years one month, height: 5 feet 8 inches, weight: 144 lb complexion: Fair, colour of eyes: grey, hair: brown and religious profession was Presbyterian. He was declared for his medical notwithstanding an admission to “one illness” by R G Adams Medical Officer Blenheim. He joined C Company 13th reinforcements. He was vaccinated against cholera on 25 May 1916 and left New Zealand on HMNZT No 54 (Willochra) on 31 May 1916 along with 2,123 13th reinforcements travelling on another transport – HMNZT No 55 (Tofua). Note the records show that the Willochra left NZ on 29 May. He arrived in Devonport, England on 26 July 1916 where he went to Sling Camp for further training. On 28 July 1916 he transferred to 1st Canterbury. He remained at Sling until 4 October 1916 and on the 5 October 1916 he had landed in France. He joined his unit, 2nd Canterbury Infantry Battalion 12th Company on 22 October 1916. His file records that while in France he was fined 1/- for losing a mess tin on 15 Dec 1916. On 16 March 1917 he was admitted with a slight case of the mumps to the 7th General Hospital at St. Omer. On 2 April 1917 he rejoined his unit which on his file shows as the ‘2 Battalion Auckland Regiment 12 Coy’ which must be a mistake. He was killed in action on 7 June 1917. The 7 June 1917 was the first day of the battle of Messines and he was one of 38 men killed. His medals were received by his father. He is recorded in Appendix H of The History of the Canterbury Regiment, NZEF 1914 – 1919 by Captain David Ferguson MC page 346 as “24221 private Pifford H R G S 2nd Battalion 7/6/17.” Page 161 ff outlines the action involving the Canterbury Infantry on 7 June 1917. Cheers Zack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smith 565 Posted 2 May , 2009 Share Posted 2 May , 2009 Hello Craig, As you say, the odds of finding his pair are very slim! However yesterday afternoon I was merrily 'Googling' the Piffard name and 'H R G S Piffard' as I am sometime inclined to do and found your post. And the reason I was doing that is because, sitting less than six feet from where I am now, are the BWM and VM to Pte H R G S Piffard! I bought them off Fred Walland's medal list in 2001 and have been researching them ever since. His interesting ancestry wasn't known to me initially, but became clear as I worked on his history. I have been in contact with some of his family, including a lady in Australia. Have never been able to find a photo of him though, and of course I have always been hoping to find his plaque! It's a small world....... I used to visit this Forum regularly a number of years ago and had worked my way 'up the ranks'. However I found I have been deleted, so have joined again. Perhaps you could PM me and we will see if we can come to an arrangement we are both happy with? Best wishes, Geoff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZackNZ Posted 2 May , 2009 Share Posted 2 May , 2009 Craig I might yet find a picture of your man. Will be in touch. Zack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaron Nelson Posted 3 May , 2009 Share Posted 3 May , 2009 The power of the internet, quite remarkable. Brings like minded communities as this example here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clive_hughes Posted 3 May , 2009 Share Posted 3 May , 2009 Glad to know they have been found, at any rate! LST_164 (former owner of this pair) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smith 565 Posted 7 May , 2009 Share Posted 7 May , 2009 I wonder if anyone who has posted on this thread after Craig's last message has heard from him - particulary ZackNZ? Thanks, Geoff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZackNZ Posted 7 May , 2009 Share Posted 7 May , 2009 Geoff Not yet - but he's probably busy. Zack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smith 565 Posted 7 May , 2009 Share Posted 7 May , 2009 Thanks Zack. As long as its not just me.... Geoff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howarth1918 Posted 27 May , 2009 Author Share Posted 27 May , 2009 Hi Geoff, been very, very busy lately. Tried to PM you recently but I believe because you only have '3' posts you cannot send or receive PM's yet. I believe you have to have 10 posts??? At any rate I will check my messages and this post as often as I can. Best Wishes, Craig... quote name='Smith 565' date='May 7 2009, 01:21 AM' post='1179231'] Thanks Zack. As long as its not just me.... Geoff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howarth1918 Posted 27 May , 2009 Author Share Posted 27 May , 2009 Hi Zack, many thanks for your hard work and effort regarding Private Piffard. I really appreciate it. Best Wishes, Craig... Craig A summary overview for you – I've emailed you the file. Harold Reginald Graham Sherrard Piffard was born in London on 28 May 1895. His father Harold lived at 18 Addison Rd 18 Addison Rd, Bedford Park Chiswick London. Piffard was a clerk working for the NZ Loan Co in Blenheim. He was staying with a friend, Archibald McCallum. He attested at Trentham on 9 Feb 1916 but had enlisted on 8 Feb at Trentham. In his attestation form you will see that he had been rejected as unfit on an earlier occasion (no date given) perhaps for poor eyesight. His description on enlistment was apparent age: 20 years one month, height: 5 feet 8 inches, weight: 144 lb complexion: Fair, colour of eyes: grey, hair: brown and religious profession was Presbyterian. He was declared for his medical notwithstanding an admission to "one illness" by R G Adams Medical Officer Blenheim. He joined C Company 13th reinforcements. He was vaccinated against cholera on 25 May 1916 and left New Zealand on HMNZT No 54 (Willochra) on 31 May 1916 along with 2,123 13th reinforcements travelling on another transport – HMNZT No 55 (Tofua). Note the records show that the Willochra left NZ on 29 May. He arrived in Devonport, England on 26 July 1916 where he went to Sling Camp for further training. On 28 July 1916 he transferred to 1st Canterbury. He remained at Sling until 4 October 1916 and on the 5 October 1916 he had landed in France. He joined his unit, 2nd Canterbury Infantry Battalion 12th Company on 22 October 1916. His file records that while in France he was fined 1/- for losing a mess tin on 15 Dec 1916. On 16 March 1917 he was admitted with a slight case of the mumps to the 7th General Hospital at St. Omer. On 2 April 1917 he rejoined his unit which on his file shows as the '2 Battalion Auckland Regiment 12 Coy' which must be a mistake. He was killed in action on 7 June 1917. The 7 June 1917 was the first day of the battle of Messines and he was one of 38 men killed. His medals were received by his father. He is recorded in Appendix H of The History of the Canterbury Regiment, NZEF 1914 – 1919 by Captain David Ferguson MC page 346 as "24221 private Pifford H R G S 2nd Battalion 7/6/17." Page 161 ff outlines the action involving the Canterbury Infantry on 7 June 1917. Cheers Zack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZackNZ Posted 28 May , 2009 Share Posted 28 May , 2009 No problem Craig happy to help - I'm also keeping a look out for a photo of your man. Zack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smith 565 Posted 28 May , 2009 Share Posted 28 May , 2009 Hi Craig, Yes, we seem to be beaten by the system, although I can understand why the restriction is there! Regards, Geoff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howarth1918 Posted 28 May , 2009 Author Share Posted 28 May , 2009 Hi Geoff, Yes, but as you say its an understandable restriction. I'll just keep checking when I get the chance and just drop me a line (PM) whenever the system allows. Best Wishes, Craig... Hi Craig, Yes, we seem to be beaten by the system, although I can understand why the restriction is there! Regards, Geoff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howarth1918 Posted 28 May , 2009 Author Share Posted 28 May , 2009 Hi Geoff, By the way just realised that we should be especially remembering Harold Reginald Graham Sherrard Piffard, as today (May 28th) is actually his birthday. According to the information kindly provided by 'zacknz', Harold was born on May 28th, 1895! Best Wishes, Craig... Hi Craig, Yes, we seem to be beaten by the system, although I can understand why the restriction is there! Regards, Geoff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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