Severn: raid to Bamburg ferm

[jta]

Hello,

around 20th of october 1914 the Severn, Mersey and Humber were bombing from before the belgian coast the German batteries. Some soldiers of the Severn did go on land to make a raid on the Bamburg ferm ( Lombartsijde). Does anyone have more information about this raid ? Or pictures from those boats, eventually before the belgian coast ?

Thanks

Jack

[TonyE]

Here is a photo of Humber, but where it was taken I know not!

See my other post on River class monitors.

Regards

TonyE

[michaeldr]

Jack,

There is not too much information regarding this action however I hope that the following will help you

From 'Britain's Sea Soldiers' by Gen Sir H E Blumberg KCB, chapter 6, page 73

"After the fall of Antwerp when the Belgian Army was falling back to Dunkirk and the race to the Sea between the adversaries was taking place leading up to the first great Battle of Ypres, the Dover Patrol under Rear-Admiral Hood was very active. On 18th October 1914, HMS Attentive, Adventure, Foresight, and Sapphire with Humber, Severn and Mersey and some British and French destroyers attacked the flank of the German Army advancing on Lombartzyde, rendering great assistance to the French and Belgian troops. The three monitors each landed 10 Royal Marines with maxims under Lieutenant Wise, RN to assist in the defence of Nieuport; Lieutenant Wise was killed, [see http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_detail...asualty=2684126] gallantly leading his men and the (R.M.) Corps sustained a loss of one killed and two wounded."

The '1914 Star' medal roll as reproduced by Fevyer & Wilson shows 32 names for the men landed as the machine gun parties from the three monitors.

F & W also reproduce the letter from Captain E J A Fullerton DSO RN of HMS Orion

addressed to Vice-Admiral Commanding Second Battle Squadron

dated 27th May 1918 and regarding the 1914 Bronze Star

In this letter Capt. Fullerton refers to "… the three monitors Severn, Mersey and Humber, then under my command, ... ... ... proceeded to Ostende and covered the evacuation of that place between, Saturday 20th October 1914 and Tuesday, 23rd October 1914."

with best regards

Michael

[michaeldr]

quote: the (R.M.) Corps sustained a loss of one killed and two wounded."

this must be the Marine who also lost his life that day; he was from the Mersey

Name: SMITH, ALFRED

Initials: A

Nationality: United Kingdom

Rank: Private

Regiment/Service: Royal Marine Light Infantry

Unit Text: (RMR/B/465). H.M.S. "Mersey."

Date of Death: 20/10/1914

Service No: PO/6480

Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead

Grave/Memorial Reference: 6.

Memorial: PORTSMOUTH NAVAL MEMORIAL

[michaeldr]

quote: "the (R.M.) Corps sustained a loss of one killed and two wounded."

I suspect that this is one of the two wounded, who died a few weeks later; he was from the Severn

Name: GRAY, ROBERT

Initials: R

Nationality: United Kingdom

Rank: Private

Regiment/Service: Royal Marine Light Infantry

Unit Text: (R.M. R.B.768). "B" Coy., H.M.S. "Severn"

Age: 30

Date of Death: 08/12/1914

Service No: PLY/12773

Additional information: Son of John and Mary Gray, of 3, Keble St., Higher Ince, Wigan.

Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead

Grave/Memorial Reference: B. 18. 3.

Cemetery: HASLAR ROYAL NAVAL CEMETERY

[jta]

Hello,

thanks all for this information. Some Flemish books mention 10 to 12 killed soldiers : they tried to reach the Bamburg in the open field between the Sluices and the ferm, but when they were close ,,enough" the Germans opened the fire with a lot of killed and wounded soldiers as result. I try to find more information

Jack

[michaeldr]

quote: I try to find more information

Jack

Whatever you find out we will be pleased to hear about it here

All the best

Michael

[michaeldr]

Jack,

The Naval Review Vol.III - November 1915 issue, has an account which seems to have been written by a very young officer on the Severn

see page 615 here http://www.naval-review.org/issues/1915-4.pdf

quote: "One day the Belgians asked us to send marines ashore with maxims. We sent l0 from each ship under one of our lieutenants (Wise). They had a dreadful time: were sent to occupy a farmhouse and found when they neared it, it was already occupied by Germans. Of our eleven Wise was killed, two marines wounded and five missing. Only four returned and were picked up by the boats of the destroyers. The other ships fared better, but we have been very lucky otherwise.

from page 616

quote: "24th.-We found one of our missing to-day in hospital, the sick-berth attendant. He was wounded in the back, the leg and arm, and lay all day till 10 p.m. in a trench, and then he and a wounded Belgian helped each other to a house two miles away (taking three hours) and were then picked up and brought to Dunkirk. He is doing well and looking quite happy."

This must refer to M3883 Sick Berth Attendant L. J. Coombes from the Severn (he was the only SB/Attn with the Machine Gun Parties and it seems that he survived the war)

from page 618

quote: "30th - The five missing men have all turned up."

regards

Michael

[jta]

Hello,

about the casualties i did find some big differences :

-Britains Sea Soldiers : The three monitors each landed 10 Royal Marines with maxims under Lieutenant Wise, RN to assist in the defence of Nieuport; Lieutenant Wise was killed, [see http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_detail...asualty=2684126] gallantly leading his men and the (R.M.) Corps sustained a loss of one killed and two wounded." (posted by Michaeldr)

-The naval review : Of our eleven Wise was killed, two marines wounded and five missing. ( posted by Michaeldr). This is only for the Severn, not for the other ships

- The book ,,In Flanders Flooded Fields", from Paul van Pul : pag 173 : Wise and 16 others were killed . Also : ,,the marines did march in the open field to the Bamburg, the belgian soldiers shouted in dutch and french not to do this but the marines did not understand them. When ther were 50 m from the Bamburg, the Germans started shooting".

- In a diary of a belgian soldier : ,, they must leave all their material and killed friends on the battlefield"

- in Naval Casualties ( hansard.millbank) since beginning of the war untill 25 november 1914 :

20 october HMS Severn 1 officer killed ( must we Wise)

20-31 october HMS Humber 3 soldiers wounded

20-31 october HMS Mersey 2 soulders wounded, one missing

20-31 october HMS Severn 2 soldiers missing

Jack

[michaeldr]

Jack,

the medal list per Fevyer & Wilson seems to indicate that all 32 members of the 'Machine Gun Parties' received their medal apart from four who were 'DD'

ie. 'Discharged Dead'

Those four were:-

Wise E.S. Lieut RN Discharged Dead 20 October 1914

Dickens T. W. Private RMLI Ch12314 (Humber) Discharged Dead 22 Nov 1915

ie. he did not die as a result of the Neiuport action, but at the time of his death Dickens was shown being with H.M.S. Boadicea.

Grey R. Private RMLI Ply12773 (Severn) Discharged Dead 8 December 1914

Smith A. Private RMLI Po6480 (Mersey) Discharged Dead 20 OCT 1914

However many other men were wounded or missing in this action, it appears that they survived, returned to service, and collected their medals at the end of the war

regards

Michael

[jta]

Hello,

thanks for information and for the new confirmation only 2 died ( one on the field and one a few weeks later)

it should be interested to find out which source Paul van Pul ( ...17 killed) had. But he is living now in Canada.....

Jack

[michaeldr]

Jack,

I do not know enough about this action, or about van Pul's work

Is it possible that other British/Allied personnel apart from Royal Navy/Royal Marines were involved here?

Is it possible that van Pul was writing about a force larger than just those who were landed from the three Royal Navy monitors?

regards

Michael

[medals2]

Jack,

The Naval Review Vol.III - November 1915 issue, has an account which seems to have been written by a very young officer on the Severn

see page 615 here http://www.naval-review.org/issues/1915-4.pdf

quote: "One day the Belgians asked us to send marines ashore with maxims. We sent l0 from each ship under one of our lieutenants (Wise). They had a dreadful time: were sent to occupy a farmhouse and found when they neared it, it was already occupied by Germans. Of our eleven Wise was killed, two marines wounded and five missing. Only four returned and were picked up by the boats of the destroyers. The other ships fared better, but we have been very lucky otherwise.

from page 616

quote: "24th.-We found one of our missing to-day in hospital, the sick-berth attendant. He was wounded in the back, the leg and arm, and lay all day till 10 p.m. in a trench, and then he and a wounded Belgian helped each other to a house two miles away (taking three hours) and were then picked up and brought to Dunkirk. He is doing well and looking quite happy."

This must refer to M3883 Sick Berth Attendant L. J. Coombes from the Severn (he was the only SB/Attn with the Machine Gun Parties and it seems that he survived the war)

from page 618

quote: "30th - The five missing men have all turned up."

regards

Michael

Hi Michael and the group.

From my copy of “Severn’s” Saga by E. Keble Chatterton, I found the following references to this topic:

P. 39 – “The monitors provided also from among themselves a party comprising a sergeant, corporal and eleven Marines, together with several ratings, all under Lieut. E.S. Wise R.N. of H.M.S. “Servern”. At 8 a.m. they were landed on Nieuport pier, and then streaked inland towards Slype, against which the enemy was hammering mightily.”

P. 40 - “Lieut. Wise and party of Marines sent to Slype this morning have suffered heavy loss. Lieut Wise killed, and several wounded.”

So according to this account, the landing party was composed of Lt Wise, a sergeant, a corporal, 11 Marines and several (an unknown number) ratings, for a grand total of 14 plus an unknown number of ratings. This would explain the sick-berth attendant (possibly sent to act as a medic?). This also contradicts the above statement that "we sent 10 from each ship". Since naval research is not my area, is there some "official" document showing who went ashore, i.e. ships's log.

While we are on this topic, I have the medals of S.S. 1412 A.B.R.N. Daniel McCallum McEwen who served on H.M.S. Severn. I purchased these, with some documentation because of my interest in the WW1 Campaign in German East Africa. However, the documentation I have on McEwen does not show his naval trade. I'm very keen on trying to determine what is duties were on the Severn, and what role he possibly played during the various engagements by the Severn. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Jean-Paul

[melliget]

around 20th of october 1914 the Severn, Mersey and Humber were bombing from before the belgian coast the German batteries. Some soldiers of the Severn did go on land to make a raid on the Bamburg ferm ( Lombartsijde). Does anyone have more information about this raid ? Or pictures from those boats, eventually before the belgian coast ?

Jack.

Not sure if this adds much to what has already been supplied but The Times 26 Oct 1914 carried an article that reported on some of the action on the Belgian coast (headlines were Battle Of The Dunes, Watching The Monitors At Works, etc). Here is small part of it:

LIEUTENANT WISE'S DEATH

Machine guns had been landed from the

British squadron at Nieuport and hurried up to

try to save the Groote Bamburgh, but they

came too late. The Germans were already in

the farm, and opened fire, killing the naval

officer in charge of the detachment. This

officer I afterwards heard was Lieutenant Wise,

of H.M.S. Severn. I was told the story of his

forlorn hope by some Belgian officers who saw

him killed. "We were in the trenches behind

the Groote Bamburgh," they said, "when we

saw him coming along with his 20 men carrying

the mitrailleuses. He was walking straight

across the fields with his map in his hand, shout-

ing to his men where to go as calm as if nothing

were happening. We called out to him not to

go on, as we knew the Germans had got their

own mitrailleuses into the farm and that it was

too late. But he didn't seem to understand.

He went right on. It was fine to see how calm

he was. Then when he was about 50 yards

from the farm the Germans suddenly opened

fire, and he fell killed by the first bullets."

The Belgians were full of admiration for the

young officer's gallantry. The manner of his

death will remain an honour to the Navy.

The following item held by the National Archives, ship's logs for the Severn (1914 Aug. 8 - 1915 Feb. 23) might hold some related information:

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/catalog...mp;Summary=True

From a summary of losses of the RN by the Admiralty (published in The Times 26 Nov 1914):

Belgian Coast Operations (20-31 Oct.)

Brilliant: 1 officer and 3 men wounded.

Falcon: 1 officer and 9 men killed, 1 officer and 13 men wounded.

Humber: 3 men wounded.

Mersey: 2 men wounded, 1 man missing or interned.

Rinaldo: 1 man killed, 13 men wounded.

Severn: 2 men wounded.

Vestal: 1 man killed, 1 officer and 2 men wounded.

From The Times, 31 Oct 1914:

..

MEN REJOINED

The following men, previously reported

missing, have now rejoined their ships:-

H.M.S. SEVERN

Taylor, John, Sergeant, R.M.L.I., Ply.7207

Clark, Charles Newton, Private, R.M.L.I., Ply.16707

Harris, Edward, Private, R.M.L.I., Ply.11428

H.M.S. HUMBER

Martin, Joseph, Private, R.M.L.I., Ch.15582

Dickens, Thomas William, Private, R.M.L.I., Ch.12314

Note: Article also gave names of killed and wounded on the Rinaldo.

regards,

Martin

[Neil Mackenzie]

Does anyone know exactly where the Groote Bamburgh was located in Lombardsijde?

Many thanks

Neil