phil@basildon Posted 9 May , 2009 Share Posted 9 May , 2009 I have found the migration record for John R. and George E. They left London for Melbourne on the 17th June 1914. They travelled on the S.S. Hawkes Bay of the Commonwealth and Dominion Line. In the manifest they are both described as 'Farm Student' two of dozen's with the same description so it appears to be some sort of employment campaign. I am now going to look for AE on the records. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phil@basildon Posted 9 May , 2009 Share Posted 9 May , 2009 I now have details of Albert juniors emigration. I have also discovered his wifes maiden name and that he had two sons at the time, also his last address in Sheffield. The address was 5, Lonsdale Road, Walkley, Sheffield. His wife (Marie)'s maiden name was Fairhurst and they married Jul-Sep 1920. His two sons were Derrick Vincent b. 1921 and Albert Edward b. 1924. The family sailed from London for Sydney on the 13th October 1927 on board the BENDIGO of the P&O line via the Cape (South Africa). I have also found the birth of Marie Fairhurst, Jan-Mar quarter 1900 Sheffield W Yorkshire. Edit. I almost forgot, the migration details describes AE as an engineer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ph0ebus Posted 10 May , 2009 Author Share Posted 10 May , 2009 Deans 'acquaintance' is off to the archive's on Monday. Hooray! I thank you, and please pass on my thanks to them for their efforts, whatever the outcome. -Daniel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ph0ebus Posted 10 May , 2009 Author Share Posted 10 May , 2009 I now have details of Albert juniors emigration. I have also discovered his wifes maiden name and that he had two sons at the time, also his last address in Sheffield. The address was 5, Lonsdale Road, Walkley, Sheffield. His wife (Marie)'s maiden name was Fairhurst and they married Jul-Sep 1920. His two sons were Derrick Vincent b. 1921 and Albert Edward b. 1924. Aha! So I did find his grandson's record of service in WWII (reprinted for the sake of convenience): Title BELL ALBERT EDWARD : Service Number - N437419 : Date of birth - 30 Aug 1924 : Place of birth - SHEFFIELD ENGLAND : Place of enlistment - BANKSTOWN NSW : Next of Kin - BELL ALBERT Series number B884 Control symbol N437419 Contents date range 1939 - 1948 Access status Not yet examined Location Canberra Barcode 6198916 Nice work, Phil. Where did you find this stuff? Incidentally, no hits for his brother Vincent in the National Archives of Australia re: military service, nor in CWGC. -Daniel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ph0ebus Posted 10 May , 2009 Author Share Posted 10 May , 2009 I have just checked the birth records on Ancestry, the twins were registered in the fourth quarter of 1893. If AE senior died in 1941 it is unlikely for there to be an obit. Newsprint was in short supply so newspapers stopped printing such items. Good news! As per the Archive in Sheffield, a death notice was indeed run for AEB! They have put a copy in the mail to me. So, in a week or so, perhaps we will know a little more. -Daniel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melliget Posted 10 May , 2009 Share Posted 10 May , 2009 Hi. Here are the death and funeral notices from the Sydney Morning Herald for Albert Edward BELL (jnr.) d. 12/07/1969 and George Ernest BELL d. 21/12/1993 (I've got my doubts about the latter). For Albert Edward Bell, wife was Marie, which I think is a match. Gives children's names as Derek, Albert, John, Doreen and George. Also gives their spouses names, although the only pairing we can be sure of is Doreen and Allan. A search of the Australian Whitepages for Bell in Bankstown brings up one possible, a J. J. Bell living at 43 Eldridge Rd. Albert's address in his death notice given as 76 Eldridge Rd - so it could be John, or could be a coincidence. http://www.whitepages.com.au/wp/resSearch.do George Ernest Bell's death notice mentions brothers Ron and Graham (England) and Reg (South Africa) - should be John and Albert, shouldn't it, so seems to be the wrong person? As I said, I have tomorrow off so let me know if there's anything else I can lookup and I will revisit the SLQ. regards, Martin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phil@basildon Posted 10 May , 2009 Share Posted 10 May , 2009 The migration records were on Find my Past. After 1912 the mothers maiden name is recorded on birth registrations in the UK. Martin, George Ernest is the right one, he lived to the ripe old age of 98! AE junior I notice became a Roman Catholic, probably when he married. George must have married in Australia and three of Alberts children were born in Australia, does anyone have access to the Australian BMD index's? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phil@basildon Posted 10 May , 2009 Share Posted 10 May , 2009 The newspaper reports of the death of George E. seem to be a bit out. Reg in South Africa is o.k. it ties up with his brother born in 1900. Ron could be Roland born in 1911 but I can find no record of a Graham that ties up even on the BMD registers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ph0ebus Posted 10 May , 2009 Author Share Posted 10 May , 2009 The newspaper reports of the death of George E. seem to be a bit out. Reg in South Africa is o.k. it ties up with his brother born in 1900. Ron could be Roland born in 1911 but I can find no record of a Graham that ties up even on the BMD registers. Hi, Perhaps George's brother Victor went by his middle name? And he did have a brother Ron ( they are from my previous list extracted from Ancestry): 3. Ronald Adolphus Bell NO INFO 4. Victor Graham Bell NO INFO Martin, great work! So, Albert Edward Jr. was buried in Catholic Cemetery, Rookwood and George likely has no burial location per se. -Daniel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phil@basildon Posted 10 May , 2009 Share Posted 10 May , 2009 I have found Ronald A. birth registered Jul-Sep 1916. This must be what his father rushed home for. No sign of Victor yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phil@basildon Posted 10 May , 2009 Share Posted 10 May , 2009 I put a 'wild card' in to Ancestry with Mrs. Lilian Bell's maiden name (Blacktin) but it only comes up with Ronald A. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melliget Posted 10 May , 2009 Share Posted 10 May , 2009 Hi. Weren't Albert (Jnr.) and George brothers? I find it a little strange that George's death notice would mention three other brothers but not mention Albert who died 24 years earlier. The SLQ has all the Australian BDM CDs and fiche, however I can't seem to shake this cold/flu so I can't make it there today. Perhaps next weekend if there are no further offers. The NSW BDMs don't seem to be as extensive as some other states (my interest is mainly Victoria). The fiche cover 1788-1945, the CD 1919-1945 (search capabilities on CD are far superior, of course). In comparison, VIC has similar (slightly different dates) but also has the Vic Death Index CD for 1921-1985. regards, Martin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ph0ebus Posted 11 May , 2009 Author Share Posted 11 May , 2009 Hi all, That wonderful fellow I mentioned previously who lives near La Clytte Cemetery sent me several pictures of John Bell's gravestone; here is a detail of one picture: Take care, -Daniel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phil@basildon Posted 11 May , 2009 Share Posted 11 May , 2009 Martin, Although we have not traced all of George's brothers yet we have at least eight, The brothers listed were probably the surviving brothers. There are two other Bell's in Bankstown who are quite close to where AE lived. How big is Bankstown? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melliget Posted 11 May , 2009 Share Posted 11 May , 2009 Phil. I've never been to Bankstown (only an occasional visitor to Sydney) but apparently it's 77 square kilometers, population 170,000+. http://www.bankstown.nsw.gov.au/History/default.aspx regards, Martin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ph0ebus Posted 11 May , 2009 Author Share Posted 11 May , 2009 Hi all, Heard back from Chris Hobbes re: Crookes Cemetery; he indicated he is more than happy to help but needs grave locations in order to proceed; he says otherwise, finding a grave in Crookes, given it follows no logical plan, is 'like finding a needle in a haystack'. Given we already have the photo of Lilian's stone and John's memorial stone, I am going to thank him but hold off until we have some sort of proof AEB is buried there, based on what the death notice indicates. Should that not have the info, or only vague info, I will follow up with the Burial Registers, pony up the fee and cross my fingers. -Daniel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phil@basildon Posted 11 May , 2009 Share Posted 11 May , 2009 I have found Albert juniors medal card on Ancestry. His army number was mis-read as 99407. His unit was the Royal Field Artillery, Labour Corps. Rank Driver. He signed up on 19th Sep 1915. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deano Posted 12 May , 2009 Share Posted 12 May , 2009 My friend went to Archives yesterday but no luck as yet, she is back there on Thursday for another search. She searched the registers whlie there for Shiregreen, Burncross and Abbey Lane cemy's. Dean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ph0ebus Posted 12 May , 2009 Author Share Posted 12 May , 2009 Hi all, Amazingly I got my requested materials from Southampton Library already! Good stuff. Nothing to add to this discussion per se, but good details on the ship itself, as well as info on a few other ships tangentially related to the California's story, which largely are not Great war related, and thus will not be woven into this thread. -Daniel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phil@basildon Posted 12 May , 2009 Share Posted 12 May , 2009 Daniel follow this link for AE juniors emigration. http://www.findmypast.com/passengerListSho...2&pageno=33 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ph0ebus Posted 13 May , 2009 Author Share Posted 13 May , 2009 Hi all, It now looks like I will have an opportunity to visit NYPL's general ressearch division this afternoon; if so I will take out McLellan's book on the Anchor Line and see what, if anything it may contain about the use of camoflauge or disguises on their ships during war time. I am still of the mind (at least today) it was Albert traveling incognito but we'll see what McLellan has to say on the subject. Sadly, they do not have a copy of Duncan Haws' book, so I will have to look elsewhere for that. -Daniel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ph0ebus Posted 13 May , 2009 Author Share Posted 13 May , 2009 Hi all, I did indeed get to NYPL and have in front of me a copy of the entire section of the book on the service of Anchor Line ships during the Great War. It is a depressingly short eight and a half pages. It sheds no new light on the California's service during wartime, but then again, how much can you say in a single paragraph? Simply put: she was high and dry at the outbreak of war, her repairs took a long time due to the war effort, she did some troopship work upon her return to service (October 1st through the beginning of December 1915) for the Canadian Over-Seas Expeditionary Force, she returned to passenger service, and was sunk in February 1917. What was interesting was info about other Anchor Line ships of this period; most clearly summarized in the sentence, "...eight of the fleet were requisitioned by the government at various times, and most of the others made one or more trooping voyages" (p. 61). Of particular interest was the story of the Perugia, an Anchor Liner that was requisitioned by the Government while in Glasgow in February 1916 and was convereted into a Q-ship (designation Q.1). After 'service in home waters' (whatever that means) she was sent to Gibraltar for 'an offensive cruise'. She was sunk by torpedo on December 3rd while responding to an SOS call. So, the Admiralty was not above using passenger ships as Q-ships, though she was of a considerably smaller size tha the California (4,348 GRT versus 8,669 GRT). Re: Duncan Haws' book, the nearest library-held copy is so far away it might as well be available via interplanetary loan, so I am just going to bite the bullet and buy a copy. -Daniel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phil@basildon Posted 14 May , 2009 Share Posted 14 May , 2009 The Perugia as a Q-ship would probably have operated in the area off the coast of Ireland or within the Irish sea or maybe the North Sea all of which was the usual hunting ground for U-Boats. Home Waters usually meant a line from south of Iceland down as far as Gibraltar and then east to Gibraltar, everything within that area would be classed as 'Home Waters'. Incidently at least one vessel that operated as a Q-ship still exists, this is the schooner 'Result' which now resides in Ulster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deano Posted 14 May , 2009 Share Posted 14 May , 2009 CROOKES CEMETERY, SHEFFIELD. BELL - ALBERT EDWARD aged 69, Retired, interred on March 22nd 1941. From 105 Tadcaster Road, Sheffield. Burial number 9166. Grave 2950, Section DD ( Cons ) Dean, with thanks to Christine Steers for the leg work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ph0ebus Posted 14 May , 2009 Author Share Posted 14 May , 2009 Dean and Christine, You both deserve major kudos! I will see if I can get a photo of his stone from one of the folks in Sheffield who kindly offered to do so. -Daniel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now