Oranges and pennies

[Desmond7]

We've probably all (well those of us in the 45 plus category) heard the old tales about how children years ago were 'lucky to get a wee orange or a penny' for events such as Christmas/birthdays etc etc.

Funnily enough I recently came across a POW postcard sent to children back home in which an Uncle (PoW 1st July 1916) talks of wishing he was home to give them the aforementioned 'oranges and pennies'! I found it very touching.

Anyone else come across similar sentiments?

Des

[Jim Strawbridge]

We've probably all (well those of us in the 45 plus category) heard the old tales about how children years ago were 'lucky to get a wee orange or a penny' for events such as Christmas/birthdays etc etc.

Funnily enough I recently came across a POW postcard sent to children back home in which an Uncle (PoW 1st July 1916) talks of wishing he was home to give them the aforementioned 'oranges and pennies'! I found it very touching.

Anyone else come across similar sentiments?

Des

I always had tangerines, mandarines or oranges in my Santa's stocking. Could this be a follow on? But I remember nuts were in there, too.

[burlington]

I always had tangerines, mandarines or oranges in my Santa's stocking. Could this be a follow on? But I remember nuts were in there, too.

Sorry Jim but this does depend on your age!!

I only had an orange or similar in my stocking post 1947.

As for nuts.....

Regards

Martin

[Desmond7]

And it begs the question ... what was the availability of fruit for general populace during WW1? One assumes the U-boat campaign had an effect on such imports?

Des

[centurion]

France was not short of oranges such fruit being imported from Spain overland. Some of these reached Britain as fruit was a common deck cargo on ships returning across the Channel from France. So oranges etc were never rationed in WW1 but would probably be in reduced supply along with much else. (There was a shortage of marmalade but this was due to a shortage of sugar which was rationed). Oranges were in any case an exotic fruit for many and a relatively expensive treat where incomes were low. Limes were imported in some quantity via the same route, most ending up at Roses of St Albans (later taken over by Schweppes) for the production of lime juice cordial used as anti scorbutic by both the Navy and the Army (pure lime juice goes off).

[truthergw]

I was a very young child in WW2 and the scenario was repeated. Fruit was not rationed but was in short supply, resulting in long queues at fruiterers when they had oranges or bananas. To this day, the smell of oranges and apples says Xmas to me because Mum seems always to have managed one of each in our stocking. As well as sweetie fags and matches and chocolate pipe with coconut tobacco!

[Desmond7]

Anyone else with references to WW1 soldiers mentioning this? It seemed such a human expression for the man when he was enduring very hard rations in a German POW camp (as were the Germans themselves of course!)

Des

[Just Barbara]

In the 50s, my brother and I would get tissue wrapped tangerines and shiny pennies that my dad had collected in the bottom of our stockings, I feel quite nostalgic thinking about it, and I remember my gran, born 1900, telling us about getting an orange and pennies in the toe of her christmas stocking....

Barbara..

[per ardua per mare per terram]

Did the troops serving in Palestine and Italy have oranges in their stockings? Or did they find other occupents?

[Nigel Marshall]

Hello Des,

I assume that if the oranges being imported from France into England came in via the Channel ports and radiated outwards, the further you were from the South East Corner of England, the less chance you had of obtaining any.

I don't hold out much hope for too many reaching Ballymena Des!

Coming back to your original question about men ignoring their own privations in their letters home, I was allowed access to such a letter from one of the men remembered on my war memorial website. In his letter, which ran to three and a bit sides of ordinary note paper, he talks of the weather, his garden at home, his children etc, etc, but does not once touch on how tough he was getting it.

This man was particularly tragic. His wife died very shortly after giving birth to their son, who it is almost certain my man never saw before he was killed in action. Then in the 'flu epidemic of 1918, the son died too. An awful story.

Cheers,

Nigel

[NigelS]

I assume that if the oranges being imported from France into England came in via the Channel ports and radiated outwards, the further you were from the South East Corner of England, the less chance you had of obtaining any.

Don't forget that the Port of London was then thriving, so assuming oranges did arrive there, would have allowed them to travel a bit further up country!

NigelS

[centurion]

Hello Des,

I assume that if the oranges being imported from France into England came in via the Channel ports and radiated outwards,

Wholesale and retail distribution systems don't quite work like that. However the cost would go up the further away from the port of import.

Coming back to your original question about men ignoring their own privations in their letters home,

To put this into historical perspective I once had the privilege of being the first person to read some letters from a British officer with the Indian (Bombay and Madras Presidencies) force sent to Egypt in 1801. (they were unopened in the archives of the British Army Museum at Chelsea never having reached the original addressee). This force had a horrible march across the desert from the Red Sea to Cairo suffering from heat and thirst but none of this was mentioned in the letters which were full of amusing anecdotes about the Arab traders etc. I suspect the stiff upper lip has been with us for some time - long may it be so

[Desmond7]

Thanks to all for replies. I will see if I can scan the little card and post it .. it's a wonderful little piece of emphemera.

Des

[centurion]

Don't forget that the Port of London was then thriving, so assuming oranges did arrive there, would have allowed them to travel a bit further up country!

NigelS

Fruit tended to travel on the extensive railway network (Britain used to have one of those). My information is based on the time I led a team putting systems into a major fruit importer and distributor that maintained a company history. They used to service all their wholesale clients up and down the country by rail until post Beeching. As fruit is a perishable product speed was important.

[SiegeGunner]

Someone will correct me if I'm mistaken, but I think I'm right in saying that the link between oranges and Christmas grew up because that is the time of year at which new crop oranges (and related citrus fruits) from the Mediterranean countries became available.