Terry Carter Posted 30 March , 2009 Share Posted 30 March , 2009 Can anyone help me please. As mentioned in a previous thread, I am off to the Somme for a couple of days later this week. one of the days, I plan to walk from Auchonvillers across the Hawthorn Ridge, The Sunken Lane, Redan Ridge up to the Three Copses. With the aid of this new Linesman gadget, can any one produce a trench map of the area with the present day cemeteries marked on it, so I can get my bearings when I am out there.... (also it will impress my mates.... and I might get some free beer !!!!) If Guy Smith reads this and helps me out, I might even consider buying one of them Linesmen do dahs myself!!!! Thanks in anticipation Terry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick D Posted 30 March , 2009 Share Posted 30 March , 2009 Terry, I you get one I'd be very interested, as this is a walk I was intending to do when I'm over in a fortnight. Mick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
towisuk Posted 31 March , 2009 Share Posted 31 March , 2009 Terry, as you will be taking in the Sunken Lane, have a close look to see if you can identify where the tunnel that came from the British front line exited in the lane. All the trees and bushes have been cut down on that side, and there are some features which it has not been able to see with the undergrowth in place. A photo of the exit point ( if you spot it) will be handy. I was told that it was near the top of the lane, but I also seem to think it emerged half way up (information from another source). regards Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
towisuk Posted 31 March , 2009 Share Posted 31 March , 2009 Re: cemeteries on a trench map, something like this Terry?....... Using "Linesman". Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
towisuk Posted 31 March , 2009 Share Posted 31 March , 2009 Heading south..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
towisuk Posted 31 March , 2009 Share Posted 31 March , 2009 Into Newfoundland memorial Park using "Linesman" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
towisuk Posted 31 March , 2009 Share Posted 31 March , 2009 Back up north........ Ok Terry? regards Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
towisuk Posted 31 March , 2009 Share Posted 31 March , 2009 Oops!, left one out......Redan Ridge No1.... Had to join 2 maps together for this, easy with the Digital mapping package.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
towisuk Posted 31 March , 2009 Share Posted 31 March , 2009 And whats possible using a plug-in for Google Earth..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Carter Posted 31 March , 2009 Author Share Posted 31 March , 2009 Tom Thankyou very much for your excellent job you have done. That is brilliant.... and when I am there I will take non of the credit I will have a good look up the Sunken Lane and photograph any interesting feature, know that the trees and bushes have been cut back... I might even have to take my furtling stick with me. Again many thanks Terry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old-ted Posted 31 March , 2009 Share Posted 31 March , 2009 Tom. I'm well impressed. Well done. Regards John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
towisuk Posted 31 March , 2009 Share Posted 31 March , 2009 You're welcome Gentlemen! regards Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevinBattle Posted 31 March , 2009 Share Posted 31 March , 2009 I'm just someone with a keen interest in the sacrifices made for just a few yards but I'm completely staggered by how much can be gathered from using these maps in conjunction with modern terrain brings it home even more vividly. I have been to these cemeteries but had no concept until now of the lie of the land affecting the trench systems, Y Ravine etc, so heartfelt thanks for bringing these areas to life! I would seriously recommend something like a sticky so that anyone going on a battlefield Tour would have these to help relate the modern landscape and the trench maps. What a brilliant advert for the Linesman programme!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul swann Posted 31 March , 2009 Share Posted 31 March , 2009 Brilliant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stripeyman Posted 31 March , 2009 Share Posted 31 March , 2009 Mr Towisuk, your flag is in the wrong place on the map in front of the Sunken Lane. Or the lynchett is wrong on the map.............. Bob Grundy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
towisuk Posted 1 April , 2009 Share Posted 1 April , 2009 Remembering under what trying circumstances the maps were made in WW1, it can come as no surprise that there is the occasional anomaly on some trench maps. I have used the system extensivley "in the field", last week being the latest occasion, and let me tell you that the system works fine. I was standing between the craters at Vimy ridge and the map on the pda was spot on. I hate to think that I was trying to compile a map over 90 years ago with bullets and shells making cartography "interesting, but dangerous" regards Tom" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stripeyman Posted 1 April , 2009 Share Posted 1 April , 2009 Tom I am not being picky with the comment but it shows that I am taking note............ Unfortunatly I am not very good with these sort of gadgets that you are using, I use a map instead of SatNav. I suppose we must 'trust the compass' and not sense of direction as we said many years ago; how things change. Bob Grundy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smithmaps Posted 2 April , 2009 Share Posted 2 April , 2009 I suppose we must 'trust the compass' and not sense of direction as we said many years ago; how things change. Bob It is not the strongest of the species that survive, nor the most intelligent, but the one most responsive to change. ~Charles Darwin~ Guy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick D Posted 2 April , 2009 Share Posted 2 April , 2009 or the one with the most money in their pocket ! Mick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Carter Posted 6 April , 2009 Author Share Posted 6 April , 2009 Tom Took these photos in the Sunken Lane last Friday morning. Looking up the lane towards Watling Street, all the bushes on the left hand side have been cut back and the branches are in heaps. It looks like some cutting back has been done on the right hand side. Did not notice any features along the cut back section only loads of rabbit warrens. Terry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
towisuk Posted 6 April , 2009 Share Posted 6 April , 2009 Thanks for that Terry, the bushes had all been trimmed back when I was there a fortnight ago, I saw the same rabbit holes and some indentations in the bank which could have been the scene of some activity from WW 1. Peter Barton turned up with a coach of battlefield tourist whilst I was there, I asked him if he knew where the exit of the tunnel from the British front lines exited, and he indicated it came out near the top of the lane at the end of the bushes. The sunken lane I'm given to understand has been built up since 1916 and is not quite so "sunken" as it was on the 1/7/16.... I asked my "official" photographer to take numerous photos of the bank all the way along so I could study them back home, his idea of numerous and mine differs somewhat, I only have three or four very general ones to look at. Looking at the map below from Linesman, dated 180816 there are two distinct trenches running back towards what was the front line on 1/7/16, and I was wondering if the small one not named is the original tunnel which had been opened out by the time of the second push on Beaumont Hamel. When I was there last year I noticed some cracking in the land behind the sunken lane which is in the area of the short trench marked on the map. With the land drying out and the movement of heavy lorries in this area I was looking at that as being an indication of the position of the tunnel. Anybody else out there that can help...please feel free to add your comments on this. regards Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Carter Posted 6 April , 2009 Author Share Posted 6 April , 2009 another view Looking down towards Beaumont Hamel Road Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Carter Posted 6 April , 2009 Author Share Posted 6 April , 2009 Rabbit Warrens another Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
towisuk Posted 6 April , 2009 Share Posted 6 April , 2009 I'll be back over in October Terry, this time I'll have the wife with me, so I won't be in as much of a rush to get round the battlefields, with my "groups" I have to put them first before my own selfish interests. As the wife has taken to field walking like duck to water, this leaves me to do what I want to do and I can spend a as long as I like mooching round the lane and its environs as well as other selected sites. Many thanks for the photos..I hope you had a good trip regards Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephen Garnett Posted 6 April , 2009 Share Posted 6 April , 2009 Tom, The Operational Orders for the 1/Lancashire Fusiliers include: 19. Tunnels An underground tunnel will run from Sap 7 to SUNKEN Road and will be opened up on Z morning. This will only be used by Runners and Signallers. On the map attached to these orders Sap 7 is above the label 'Jacob's Ladder'. I am sure your map will show it. Also, the CO 1/Lancashire Fusilier's later 'Account of Action' states: At 7 am Battalion H.Q. moved from White City to Sunken Road, and at the same [time] the enemy began to shell the Sunken Road with 77 cm guns and inflicted about 20 casualties. They had probably spotted the communication trench leading from the end of the tunnel into the road. Perhaps, looking at your map, the shorter trench is this communication trench. If not, then I believe the tunnel/communication trench ran into the immediate area below it. Anything above this would be dangerously exposed to the Germans. A point made later in the Account with regard to D Coy's forming up before the assault. The same would be true for the area at the very bottom of the Sunken Road. As regards the 'Runners and Signallers' I think this was the plan for after 7.30. Lt/Col Magniac's narrative makes clear that it was on both sides of the Sunken Road that his men were destroyed when both the assault and support companies moved forward at 7.30 and in later attempts to get into the Sunken Road from the frontline. I went up to the area of Sap 7 last week and the British frontline is commanded by the German positions. In previous visits I had paid no attention to this area but it is well worth a visit especially as most of it is currently scrub. I would be very interested in reading other views, especially as there will be other documents related to this that I have not seen. Kind regards, Stephen Garnett Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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