what type of shell

[johnmiller]

Hi,

this shell has stood in a corner of my Father's and now my dining room. It has never been identified. My Grandfather brought it back from France 1918. Can any one help?

The attached is 6 inches diameter and it stands 16 inches high. What was it fired from?

Markings on the base are 1903--23 2 03---18---RL---T--- C.F---u 18.

Many thanks.

John

[TonyE]

The only 6 inch equipment I can think of that used a separate loaded quick firing cartridge was the 6 inch QF Coast Defence Gun. This used a straight sided brass case, the Mark V being slightly longer than the previous marks. It had a protruding primer, but since yours is missing that does not help much!

The 6 inch QF dates from the 1890s and was installed in various fixed locations where coastal attacks might be expected. The date of your case, 1903, supports this.

Your Mark II case was made at Royal Laboratory, Woolwich (RL II)and filled on the date shown. The charge was a full charge of cordite (CF).

Assuming the above is correct, I very much doubt if this came from France, since as far as I know none of these equipments were installed there.

I would add the caveat that this is not really my area of knowledge, so if anyone can add anything I am ready to stand corrected.

Regards

TonyE

[Pete1052]

... a separate loaded quick firing cartridge ...

I thought separate loading and quick firing were the opposite of each other, the first being when the projectile, propellant and primer are loaded separately and the second being when they are a single unit loaded in a brass or steel cartridge case.

[TonyE]

Hi Pete

In British army parlance "QF" applies to either fixed or separate loaded ammunition with a cartridge case, as opposed to a bagged charge with obturation pad. Thus for example the 4.5" howitzer was a "QF" despite the fact that the increments could be changed before the case was loaded saparately.

Regards

TonyE

[nigelfe]

If the base of the case is 6 inches in diameter then it almost certainly isn't a 6 inch gun of any sort. The reasons are obvious - a 6 inch shell would be too big to load. I hardly need explain that calibre is measured across the lands in the barrel and the driving band is larger still. The chamber has to be larger than the calibre and the base of the case is rimmed, meaning the body of the case is probably no more than about 5.5 inches. From this I'd deduce something around 5 inch calibre.

There's no UK field arty that fits this (they were all BL), so perhaps the QF 4.7-inch coast defence gun? Of course it may have been foreign, but the 'typeface' of the markings looks British.

[Rockdoc]

The 4.7 was issued to some Batteries in lieu of more modern guns early in the War but, from what I've read, it was horribly inaccurate and was as likely to hit Allied servicemen as Central Powers ones. Wiki has some info.

Keith

[TonyE]

I read the post that the shell case was 6" in diameter and 16" tall, not the base. I thnk you could be right about a 4.7, but we need accurate dimensions of the neck of the case. 1.3" is a lot for the rim and case taper.

As for being foreign, that is a British made case by RL Woolwich as I have already explained. It is not just the typeface, it is the markings themselves. It is odd though not to have the calibre marked.

Regards

TonyE

[johnmiller]

Hi,

The right hand end of the shell is 4.75 inches diameter.

The left nearest the base is 5.5 inches but not including the base rim which adds another half an inch.

The length without the base is 15.75 inches. This is as accurate as I can manage without specialist equipment.

The story that it came from France was passed down through my Aunt. (my Father's sister) and as my Grandfather spent nearly all the war in France seemed logical. My Grandfather however never talked to any one including my Aunt about the war except perhaps to his "pals" in the pub as he was known to enjoy their company.

Regards and thanks for your time,

John

[TonyE]

Nigelfe was right and it is a 4.7". in that case it is probably for the QF 4.7" field gun. I will post pictures later.

regards

TonyE

[nigelfe]

The 4.7 was issued to some Batteries in lieu of more modern guns early in the War but, from what I've read, it was horribly inaccurate and was as likely to hit Allied servicemen as Central Powers ones. Wiki has some info.

The naval 4.7 was used on locally built carriages in the Boer War. Subsequently "4.7" captured public imagination and Parliament got into the act requiring the TF to be equipped with them. The Army wanted 60-pr (5-inch) and had approval to go this way in 1904 IIRC. The artillery in India had totally different guns because although they were RGA they were paid for by Delhi not London. However by mobilisation in 1914 60-pr were only available for the first 6 or 7 regular divisions. Thereafter 4.7 were issued until 60-pr production got going properly.