Seaforth Highlander check

[anandprasad]

Hi,

My first post.

Just want to check i have this uniform identification right.

I think this is a private Seaforth Highlander uniform. I presume he did 2 years service and was wounded twice.

This is my grandfather who was from Aberdeenshire.

He is with my grandmother (cropped) so it was presumably taken at the end of the war. They were married in 1917, so it could have been then but i don't think so because he was married in Glasgow presumably whilst on leave and the photo was taken in Aberdeen. Were the stripes only given at the end of the war?

Also i think he must have had medals, why are they not on the uniform? I have traced what i think are his medal records but there are two options so i am not sure but it appears he had 3 or 4 sevice medals.

Is there anything else i can learn from the uniform?

Must re-scan the photo at higher resolution.

Answers to all or any of questions appreciated

[dundeesown]

Hi and welcome to the Forum.

Are you sure he was not in the Gordons?( looks to be a Gordons badge) can you post his name and any other info you have?all the best Gary.

[anandprasad]

Thanks 'dundeesown'

I thought he must be a Seaforth because of what look like antlers surrounding the cap-badge.

The reason i posted this message is because i saw some photos on this forum which looked nothing like the deer antler type badge i saw elsewhere on the internet.

Hi name was Robert McArthur (1892-1969) as i say he was from Aberdeen.

There are three Gordon Highlanders privates that fit that name on National Archives medal records.

Is that where i should be looking. if so i will buy the photo hopefully its on one card and see their details?

My sister thinks this photo is the same man. I am not so sure.

If so what is this uniform?

You wrote

Hi and welcome to the Forum.

Are you sure he was not in the Gordons?( looks to be a Gordons badge) can you post his name and any other info you have?all the best Gary.

[4thGordons]

I am pretty certain that the first picture is indeed a Gordon.

Nice image too.

The Seaforths badge does not have the wreath around the antlers. (Although IIRC the 1/5th Seaforths used a differnent Cap badge entirely)

You are correct about the wound "stipes" (the two vertical bars on his forearm) but I think the inverted chevron is a good conduct chevron and I believe it indicates five years of good behaviour rather than two (although I am sure someone will correct me). This might be useful for your time scale.

I am not sure if the second photo is the same person, although I would think it is a wartime image - Pattern 14 belt, puttees (not gaiters/spats) etc.

The second chap also appears to have 3 line "territorial" shoulder brasses on - although I cannot make them out. These would be of the form T[over]Number[over]Regiment. Perhaps a hi-res close up here would help?

I am not as sure that this second image is a Gordon. The badge (although at a difficult angle) looks a bit too large and elongated - puts me in mind of Argyll and Sutherland Highlanders - although the plain glengarry would be somewhat unusual for them, whereas at least one Bn of Gordons (11th) seem to have worn plain glens a lot. I cannot really make out his hose flashes which would be belled if a Gordon. It does look as though the regiment on the shoulder insignia is curved - which would be consistent with "Gordon" rather than A&SH.

Regarding medals - (these are the main details available on the MIC in the national archive) these were not sent out until post war /early 20s so if the first picture is dated as you suspect he would not have received them yet.

Welcome to the forum -

Chris

I find these MICs on ancestry (if you want them let me know and I will send)

S/4510 Robert McArthur

4181 Robert McArthur (Gordons, then 162697 Machine Gun Corps)

8426 Robert McArthur (Gordons then 424781 Labour Corps)

First two went to F&F in mid 1915 and were eligible for the 14-15 star, Victory and British War Medals. The third only the Victory and BWM .

none of the cards have anything on the reverse.

Edited 30 March , 2009 by 4thGordons

[truthergw]

The Glengarries were distinctive to a unit and so, unless he was transferred, it is unlikely to be the same man The second one seems to have fair or even sandy hair? Wounded twice and a good conduct stripe suggests toward the end of the war but medals were issued at the end so 1917 or 1918 before the armistice looks probable. Gordons and Seaforths both had antler capbadges but I can't see these well enough to decide. Does the second man's kilt have a thin light stripe through it, or am I imagining thing? That might be the yellow stripe of the Gordons. The old photographs were very deceiving with colours of tartans.

[anandprasad]

Thanks Chris,

That's given me plenty to chew on.

I will have to wait until i gave the original photo again to see if i can see more in higher resolution.

I would love the details you mention. What is 'F&F'? (Sorry i don't seem to be allowed to mail you directly).

Looking more carefully is see there is something hanging from his (first photo) pocket. Any ideas.

I will have to check with my sisters to see if they have his medals, that would narrow down options.

'4thGordons' 'Mar 30 2009, 02:30 PM' '1151151'

I find these MICs on ancestry (if you want them let me know and I will send)

S/4510 Robert McArthur

4181 Robert McArthur (Gordons, then 162697 Machine Gun Corps)

8426 Robert McArthur (Gordons then 424781 Labour Corps)

First two went to F&F in mid 1915 and were eligible for the 14-15 star, Victory and British War Medals. The third only the Victory and BWM .

none of the cards have anything on the reverse.

[MACRAE]

I would say its Gordons for sure .

Dan

[4thGordons]

Thanks Chris,

That's given me plenty to chew on.

I will have to wait until i gave the original photo again to see if i can see more in higher resolution.

I would love the details you mention. What is 'F&F'? (Sorry i don't seem to be allowed to mail you directly).

Looking more carefully is see there is something hanging from his (first photo) pocket. Any ideas.

I will have to check with my sisters to see if they have his medals, that would narrow down options.

I think it is a watch chain hanging from his pocket - very common in photos and when "walking out"

F&F = France and Flanders (ie the theatre of operations for the Western Front)

If you do have the medals that would be helpful becuase they will almost certainly have his name, number and regiment engraved/stamped around the rim.

Chris

[anandprasad]

Hi Chris,

I got the chevron info from here

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/mike.comerford/ORDNANCE/48b.htm

which made me think it was a 2 year good conduct stripe.

Is it wrong?

Prasad

You wrote

'I think the inverted chevron is a good conduct chevron and I believe it indicates five years of good behaviour rather than two (although I am sure someone will correct me).'

[4thGordons]

Hi Chris,

I got the chevron info from here

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/mike.comerford/ORDNANCE/48b.htm

which made me think it was a 2 year good conduct stripe.

Is it wrong?

Prasad

You wrote

'I think the inverted chevron is a good conduct chevron and I believe it indicates five years of good behaviour rather than two (although I am sure someone will correct me).'

I stand corrected then!

I got your email and will send on the MIC pics to you later.

Chris