Trenchrat Posted 27 March , 2009 Share Posted 27 March , 2009 Hi, I recently acquired an interesting photo. It shows the ladies football team from the Government Rolling Mills in Woolston during the 1917-1918 season. Did these ladies play other ladies teams or did they play against men? If someone could help with putting this photo up in the thread, I'd appreciate it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bardess Posted 28 March , 2009 Share Posted 28 March , 2009 Tada Diane Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mpjbrennan Posted 29 March , 2009 Share Posted 29 March , 2009 I have researched the women's football teams of WW1, but mainly in the North East East and Cumbria, so this team is new to me. There were however other women's teams near to the Woolston area - the Vulcan Works Ladies (Newton-le-Willows), The Lancashire United Transport Ladies (Atherton), the Preston Pay Corps Ladies, Coulthards of Preston, and of course the best-known of all - the Dick, Kerr Ladies, (also Preston). They would therefore have had ample opportunity for matches against female opposition, but may also have played against men. I would be very grateful for permission to add this image to my gallery of women's football teams which can be found at http://www.donmouth.co.uk/womens_football/team_gallery.html regards Patrick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phil@basildon Posted 29 March , 2009 Share Posted 29 March , 2009 There was 2 womens teams from the Kynochs munitions factory in the Thames estuary near Corringham in Essex. They played in a local league against other girls teams from other war factories. It would be interesting to find out how many of these teams there were, it sounds like there were quite a few. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trenchrat Posted 30 March , 2009 Author Share Posted 30 March , 2009 Hi Patrick, You have a very interesting site. These teams remind me of the female baseball teams we had in this country during and shortly after WW II. I thought it was nice that they actually had championship matches as evidenced by the girls with the trophy. It makes me wonder how good the girls were on the team that I have. I assume the gentlemen in the background are probably co-workers and the gentleman posing with the team, was the manager. Do you suppose the woman in the white jersey was the team captain? I wish there was a way to identify these ladies and find out more about the team. The photo came with a 1989, newspaper article, but it didn't say much. The photo was taken by Dorking Bridge Studio in Woolston Southampton. Sure you can add this image to your site. Should I email it to you? Regards, John Hi Phil, That's interesting about the two teams you mentioned. It would be interesting to find out how many teams there were like you say. I'm surprised that no one has written a book about them. Did the teams have names or would they have just been named after where they worked. Like these ladies were the Government Rolling Mills Ladies Football Team, but I'm sure some of them were called something else besides this. To use these ladies as an example of what I mean. Say they might have been called the Government Rolling Mills Lionesses or something like that. Not that this team had another name, just using them as an example. Regards, John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mpjbrennan Posted 30 March , 2009 Share Posted 30 March , 2009 Hi John, When I read your first post I assumed (incorrectly) that the Woolston referred to was Woolston near Warrington. In your last post you mentioned that the photo was taken by a Southampton studio, so we are talking about Woolston in Southampton. The pioneers of women's football in this region were Portsmouth Ladies, who began playing as early as September 1916. At first they did not have much in the way of female opposition, and many of their early matches were played against men. Their first match against Southampton Ladies was on 16th February 1918 at Fratton Park, the home of Portsmouth FC, and resulted in a 1-1 draw. The "Southampton Ladies" may well have been the team in your photograph. The woman in the white jersey is almost certainly the goalkeeper; the gentleman in the trilby hat may be the manager, but could also be a local dignitary drafted in the formally kick-off the game - this was a common practice. The woman seated second from the left appears to be wearing her munition worker badge in her hat - I hope she took it out before play started! According to an article about Woolston on Wikipedia; "The Royal Navy also had a large building situated between Archery Road and the waterfront which they used as stores. Originally built in 1917 by the Ministry of Munitions as Rolling Mills for the production of brass strip for shell cases." Many thanks for allowing me to reproduce the photograph. If it is not too much trouble could you email me a scan at a higher resolution - at some point in the future I may be able to identify some of the players by comparison with press photographs. kind regards Patrick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mpjbrennan Posted 30 March , 2009 Share Posted 30 March , 2009 Hi Phil, Yes, I've heard of the Kynoch teams. I haven't researched the London teams much but I have come across a few more:- The London General Omnibus Company, Handley Page, Sterling Ladies, Hoffman Ladies, Dagenham Ladies and Sopwith Ladies. I did write a book on the North-East Munitionette footballers, but it didn't attract much interest from booksellers, so now I'm making the results of my research freely available on my website. At the moment I am collecting material from areas other than the North East and Cumbria, but it is a slow process due to the travelling involved. I hope to add another page to the site before summer. kind regards Patrick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SimonM Posted 30 March , 2009 Share Posted 30 March , 2009 Hi everyone, Female teams in WWI are mentioned in our online exhibition on Army Football here at NAM: http://www.national-army-museum.ac.uk/exhi...all/page2.shtml Includes a picture of the Army Pay Office Preston, ladies team. We also have a memoir of one of the players. Regards Simon Moody Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CGM Posted 30 March , 2009 Share Posted 30 March , 2009 Hello Patrick, Would Hoffmann Ladies be from the Hoffmann Ball Bearings factory in Chelmsford? Sadly closed in the 1980s. CGM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phil@basildon Posted 30 March , 2009 Share Posted 30 March , 2009 Hi Phil, Yes, I've heard of the Kynoch teams. I haven't researched the London teams much but I have come across a few more:- The London General Omnibus Company, Handley Page, Sterling Ladies, Hoffman Ladies, Dagenham Ladies and Sopwith Ladies. I did write a book on the North-East Munitionette footballers, but it didn't attract much interest from booksellers, so now I'm making the results of my research freely available on my website. At the moment I am collecting material from areas other than the North East and Cumbria, but it is a slow process due to the travelling involved. I hope to add another page to the site before summer. kind regards Patrick The information came from a book about the Corringham Light Railway. In there the author states that the girls played against teams from factories in Grays, Purfleet and Southend. Each of the two teams (A and had their own home ground. It is recorded that there was as many as eight football teams in regular competition from Kynochs alone. The book I mentioned above contains contact details for the author, if you want them please ask and I will pass them on to you. p.s. The team photograph was credited to the Thurrock museum. F.Z. Claro collection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mpjbrennan Posted 30 March , 2009 Share Posted 30 March , 2009 Hi Phil, Yes, I would be interested in contacting the author. regards Patrick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mpjbrennan Posted 30 March , 2009 Share Posted 30 March , 2009 Hi everyone, Female teams in WWI are mentioned in our online exhibition on Army Football here at NAM: http://www.national-army-museum.ac.uk/exhi...all/page2.shtml Includes a picture of the Army Pay Office Preston, ladies team. We also have a memoir of one of the players. Regards Simon Moody Hi Simon, Is there any possibility of my adding the photo of the Pay Corps ladies to my teams gallery at http://www.donmouth.co.uk/womens_football/team_gallery.html regards Patrick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trenchrat Posted 30 March , 2009 Author Share Posted 30 March , 2009 Hi Patrick, In my photo there are 11 ladies. Was that the standard number of players on a team? What's your email address? So that I can send you a copy of the image. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phil@basildon Posted 30 March , 2009 Share Posted 30 March , 2009 Hi Phil, Yes, I would be interested in contacting the author. regards Patrick I have e-mailed these to you. Hi Patrick, In my photo there are 11 ladies. Was that the standard number of players on a team? What's your email address? So that I can send you a copy of the image. John A normal football (soccer) team is 11. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trenchrat Posted 30 March , 2009 Author Share Posted 30 March , 2009 Hi Phil, Thanks for the informtion. Patrick said the lady in the white jersey was the goaltender. Do you think the lady in between her and the gentleman was the team captain? If not her, then which of the ladies was most likely the captain? John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phil@basildon Posted 30 March , 2009 Share Posted 30 March , 2009 Hi Phil, Thanks for the informtion. Patrick said the lady in the white jersey was the goaltender. Do you think the lady in between her and the gentleman was the team captain? If not her, then which of the ladies was most likely the captain? John The lady in the white Jumper is almost certainly the goalkeeper. The captain is most likely to be the one holding the ball but this is not 100% certain as she could also be the centre forward. Any player in any position including the goalkeeper could be captain under the rules of the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trenchrat Posted 30 March , 2009 Author Share Posted 30 March , 2009 Hi Phil, Thanks for explaining that rule. Why was the goalkeeper in a white jersey? That's interesting that there was no set team captain. I can see how that would make it fair for all the team members as if one captain wasn't working out, the team wasn't stuck with that person in that position. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phil@basildon Posted 30 March , 2009 Share Posted 30 March , 2009 The goalkeeper wears different colours to the rest of the team so that the referee can identify him/her. This is because the only member of the team allowed to touch the ball with their hands on the field of play is the goalkeeper. The only time another player is allowed to handle the ball is in a throw-in from the touch line. The team captain is appointed by the manager, and is usually an experienced senior player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mpjbrennan Posted 30 March , 2009 Share Posted 30 March , 2009 Hi John, My email address is patrick@donmouth.co.uk Yes, 11 is the standard number of players in a soccer team. The players are almost certainly lined up in playing formation: to either side of the goal keeper are the two full backs; on the back row left hand side (as one looks at the photo) are the right- and centre half-backs; on the extreme right of the back row is the left half-back. The sitting ladies are the forward line - outside right, inside right, centre forward, inside left and outside left. I don't think the girl holding the ball is necessarily the captain; I think the ball is there just for symmetry. At the time it was usual for team captains to be one of the backs - I would guess at the lady second from left. kind regards Patrick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bob57 Posted 27 July , 2014 Share Posted 27 July , 2014 Tada Tada Diane Hello Diane, May I copy this photo please as the lady in the back right was my Grandmother. She had a copy of this photo but somehow it got lost over the years. I've been asking all members of the family if they have it but was astonished to see it on this site! Many thanks Bobby Diane Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 28 October , 2018 Share Posted 28 October , 2018 (edited) On 27/03/2009 at 23:24, Trenchrat said: Hi, I recently acquired an interesting photo. It shows the ladies football team from the Government Rolling Mills in Woolston during the 1917-1918 season. Did these ladies play other ladies teams or did they play against men? If someone could help with putting this photo up in the thread, I'd appreciate it. I am writing an article for Southampton's Daily Echo about Southampton Women and WW1 with reference to among other things the Rolling Mills at Woolston. I would like to feature your photograph if possible. Are you happy to approve its use and to email me a copy. If you agree I will send you my email address. It may draw responses identifying women in the photograph. Thanks. Edited 28 October , 2018 by Guest add more information Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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