Casualty Clearing Stations

[MicolStud]

roughly how long were soilders in casualty clearing stations for before being moved on to hospitals etc?

[kenf48]

According to an extract on Sue Knight's indispensable Scarletfinders... 'as soon as possible'!

http://www.scarletfinders.co.uk/10.html

Ken

[aconnolly]

Michelle

In broad terms as per Ken, but depending on the injury some very major surgery was conduted in CCS for such things as haemorrhage or immediate amputation etc. Interestingly, the survival rates were pretty good if you made a CCS, and extremely high for those who arrived at a Stationary Hospital where full definitive (surgical) care could be carried out.

I think I have some actual stats somewhere on times etc. Will re-post if I can track it down.

Regards

Andrew

[MicolStud]

Michelle

In broad terms as per Ken, but depending on the injury some very major surgery was conduted in CCS for such things as haemorrhage or immediate amputation etc. Interestingly, the survival rates were pretty good if you made a CCS, and extremely high for those who arrived at a Stationary Hospital where full definitive (surgical) care could be carried out.

I think I have some actual stats somewhere on times etc. Will re-post if I can track it down.

Regards

Andrew

cheers guys, i was just wondering as my gt gt uncle died of wounds at 41 CCS, unfortunatly the war diary does not mention his name so i have no idea on what day he was injured, im guessing he was injured that day or the day before he died, so i was wondering how long they are there before they get moved on.

[aconnolly]

Michelle

I can give you a more detailed answer:

The original concept of the CCS was three-fold - (i) Treat until fit for transport to Stationary Hospital, (ii) early evacuation of those stable but in need of on-going treatment, and (iii) retention of those cases with minor injuries/illnesses that were expected to return to active duty within hours/days.

By mid 1916 it was clear that the "stationary nature" of the trench warfare was ok for CCS function, but given the planning for the Somme expected a breakthrough and therefore a more "mobile war" the RAMC set about developing more mobile CCS systems. By September 1916 each CCS was capable of being deployed forward with enough gear to set up and manage up to 200 seriously wounded cases per day. (Trust me, this is a colossal number of cases!).

By 1917 when your gt gt uncle was wounded the CCS system was very well equipped to operate on even more than this number per day and to continue to care for these soldiers until their condition was stable enough to be evacuated further. Many of the CCS had over 600 beds for treatment and recovery.

41 CCS at Arras was in the VIth Corps area at Agnez-les-Duisans along with CCS no.s 19 and 8. It had an train line serving it to aid rapid evacuation etc. The site was within 11000 yards of the Front and artillery shells did at times go close to the CCS. These 3 CCS's also received seriously wounded men from the XVIIth Corps sector of the front. The total casualties treated by Third Army CCSs during April were in excess of 45,000.

Andrew

[MicolStud]

Michelle

I can give you a more detailed answer:

The original concept of the CCS was three-fold - (i) Treat until fit for transport to Stationary Hospital, (ii) early evacuation of those stable but in need of on-going treatment, and (iii) retention of those cases with minor injuries/illnesses that were expected to return to active duty within hours/days.

By mid 1916 it was clear that the "stationary nature" of the trench warfare was ok for CCS function, but given the planning for the Somme expected a breakthrough and therefore a more "mobile war" the RAMC set about developing more mobile CCS systems. By September 1916 each CCS was capable of being deployed forward with enough gear to set up and manage up to 200 seriously wounded cases per day. (Trust me, this is a colossal number of cases!).

By 1917 when your gt gt uncle was wounded the CCS system was very well equipped to operate on even more than this number per day and to continue to care for these soldiers until their condition was stable enough to be evacuated further. Many of the CCS had over 600 beds for treatment and recovery.

41 CCS at Arras was in the VIth Corps area at Agnez-les-Duisans along with CCS no.s 19 and 8. It had an train line serving it to aid rapid evacuation etc. The site was within 11000 yards of the Front and artillery shells did at times go close to the CCS. These 3 CCS's also received seriously wounded men from the XVIIth Corps sector of the front. The total casualties treated by Third Army CCSs during April were in excess of 45,000.

Andrew

good god those figures are frightening.....its hearbreaking to think what these guys must have gone through....and so many of them!

Thanks for the info....its much appreciated

[aconnolly]

Michelle

Some figures to put the scope of the medical service at Arras into perspective. For the period 1/4/1917 to 2/6/1917 there were an estimated 113,000 wounded evacuated from the Front to the Base hospitals - almost all of these would have passed through a CCS. In addition, there were some 91,000 sick also moved to base hospitals.

In the first week of the battle, including the fighting for Vimy Ridge, First and Third Armies had a combined total of 27 divisions in action, with 24 CCS's staffed by 224 doctors and 274 nurses. These resources handled 29,038 wounded alone that week. Approximately 30 % of the wounded admitted to a CCS required and received urgent surgery and approximately 55% of all deaths of the wounded occurred either at a Field Ambulance or a CCS. Hence the importance of well equipped and well staffed CCS units.

It would be likely that your Great Great Uncle was one of the 30% requiring life saving treatment at the CCS, but unfortunately he was to die. Under the conditions which existed in 1917 he was probably too badly injured to survive a rail trip to a Stationary hospital and succumbed to his wounds in the first 48 hours or so after arrival at the CCS. I would stress this conclusion is based on supposition regarding the likely types of injuries that did not survive even with early treatment in the CCS.

Andrew

[MicolStud]

Michelle

Some figures to put the scope of the medical service at Arras into perspective. For the period 1/4/1917 to 2/6/1917 there were an estimated 113,000 wounded evacuated from the Front to the Base hospitals - almost all of these would have passed through a CCS. In addition, there were some 91,000 sick also moved to base hospitals.

In the first week of the battle, including the fighting for Vimy Ridge, First and Third Armies had a combined total of 27 divisions in action, with 24 CCS's staffed by 224 doctors and 274 nurses. These resources handled 29,038 wounded alone that week. Approximately 30 % of the wounded admitted to a CCS required and received urgent surgery and approximately 55% of all deaths of the wounded occurred either at a Field Ambulance or a CCS. Hence the importance of well equipped and well staffed CCS units.

It would be likely that your Great Great Uncle was one of the 30% requiring life saving treatment at the CCS, but unfortunately he was to die. Under the conditions which existed in 1917 he was probably too badly injured to survive a rail trip to a Stationary hospital and succumbed to his wounds in the first 48 hours or so after arrival at the CCS. I would stress this conclusion is based on supposition regarding the likely types of injuries that did not survive even with early treatment in the CCS.

Andrew

when i went to the Wellington quarry last sunday the guy who worked there said that they lost on average 4,000 men a day for 2 months........then going to see Edwards war grave with just under 4,000 graves there it was aweful to stand there with the realisation that in that one cemetery alone is about the equivilent of one days loss.......so sad.

[aconnolly]

Yes, it is all just incomprehensible. If any consolation, I can say the quality of care was high and hopefully his death was in some way "comfortable".

Many of the things we take for granted today in emergency situations were developed on the Western Front - blood transfusion, warming of seriously wounded/injured men, anti-infective agents (no antibiotics in the Great war, but serum to try to counter gas gangrene etc.) and the vital importance of early definitive surgical treatment were all developed to a large degree in the Great War.

Andrew

[aconnolly]

Here are the statistics for the Western Front for all those treated at a hospital including a CCS in France.

It's a pdf simply to allow the table to appear easier to read.

Andrew

Western_Front_casualties.pdf

In terms of percentages, of those reaching a "hospital" after being wounded, 10% of Officers died, 7.5% of OR.

Returned to active duty in a theatre of war: Officers 18.8%, OR 29.88% after being wounded.

Staggering numbers

PS Injured refers to accidents in training etc. unrelated to enemy activity.

[Chris_Baker]

To get a sense of the scale of casualties, just take a look at the lists in the "Times" for any day from mid 1916 onward. Whole pages of a very large (broadsheet, not tabloid) newspaper in very tiny print. Name after name after name. Thousands to a page. I find this more shocking somehow than I do by seeing even the largest cemetery.

If you've not done it, do have a look. The searchable "Times Digital Archive" is available via many library websites and possibly in some educational insitutions via ATHENS.

[kenf48]

Hi both

I'm guessing Michelle as I don't have enough information but given your relative's regiment it is likely his Battalion was in the 58th London Division

http://www.1914-1918.net/bat18.htm

and therefore involved in the 2nd Battle of Bullecourt which began on the 3/05/1917. This would support Andrew's assertion that he was one of those who died within 48 (in his case 24) hours of reaching the CCS.

(He could of course been wounded earlier but I think this is a reasonable hypothesis).

The daily rate of casualties at 2nd Arras were over 4000 compared to 2943 on the Somme, and the ferocity of the fighting was unparalleled.

Ken

Ken

[MicolStud]

Hi both

I'm guessing Michelle as I don't have enough information but given your relative's regiment it is likely his Battalion was in the 58th London Division

http://www.1914-1918.net/bat18.htm

and therefore involved in the 2nd Battle of Bullecourt which began on the 3/05/1917. This would support Andrew's assertion that he was one of those who died within 48 (in his case 24) hours of reaching the CCS.

(He could of course been wounded earlier but I think this is a reasonable hypothesis).

The daily rate of casualties at 2nd Arras were over 4000 compared to 2943 on the Somme, and the ferocity of the fighting was unparalleled.

Ken

Ken

ahhhhh now im comfused lol ( it dont take much!) as someone said he would have been in the 56th division.

[aconnolly]

Dear Michelle & Ken

Here is his MIC. According to Ancestry index to Medal Cards, he was 1/1st London Regiment, so that should mean he was 56th Division (167th Brigade) in May 1917. They were involved in fighting on the Third Battle of the Scarpe 3-4 May 1917. Presumably wounded in this period. The 167th Brigade was hit by a German artillery barrage at zero hour as they assembled for the advance on 3 May. Casualties were apparently high.

Regards

Andrew

[MicolStud]

Dear Michelle & Ken

Here is his MIC. According to Ancestry index to Medal Cards, he was 1/1st London Regiment, so that should mean he was 56th Division (167th Brigade) in May 1917. They were involved in fighting on the Third Battle of the Scarpe 3-4 May 1917. Presumably wounded in this period. The 167th Brigade was hit by a German artillery barrage at zero hour as they assembled for the advance on 3 May. Casualties were apparently high.

Regards

Andrew

Thanks Andrew, yup this is my man, his death cert says 1/1st batt london regt, its the divisions that confuse me as i really dont understand it all, i have downloaded the diary for the 1/1 london and reading the first page in may he didnt stand much chance.....the day before his death it states..

Attacked TOOL Trench at 3.45am and three further objectiveson North of CAMBRAI road. Battalion attacked in 4 waves A & D Coys fron B & C in rear A & B being on right. Each company in two platoon frontage. Owing to darkness direction was lost and much confusion resulted. MG and rifle fire was very heavy and attack failed. Apparently a few men of A Coy and a few of D obtained a footing in TOOL trench, the first objective but failed to maintain it. Some of D are said to have passed TOOL and penetrated to LANYARD Trench but this is uncertain. At 6am all were back in our front line - CAVALRY Trench. Heavily shelled for remainder of day, especially Bat HQ in support line SADDLE Trench. Relieved at night and proceeded back to WANCOURT Line. Casualties 2Lt Eiloart & 2Lt N.C HEATON + 28 O.R. killed. Capt W F Cain died of wounds. 2Lt E.C Warren + 45 O.R. missing. 2Lts Papworth, Gampton, Enever, Lane and 130 O.R wounded.

the day of his death (4th May) it states that 1 OR wounded

my guess is he was wounded on the 3rd and passed away the following day or he was the one wounded on the 4th and died that day as i know his injury was to the head.

Michelle