Lt Guy Jack 11th then 3rd Royal Scots

[Lost in Tilloy]

Came across two small articles relating to Lt Guy Jack, 11th then 3rd Royal Scots:

Linlithgow Gazette 05/01/1917 [under Ratho section]:

"Lt Guy Jack, Royal Scots, son of Mr Jack, Farmer, Hermiston, previously missing now officially presummed killed."

George Watson's College Roll of Honour 1914-1918:

"Jack, Guy*

A son of the late T Jack, Hermiston, Midlothian, was born in 1885, and entered G.W.C. in 1896. Gazetted 2/Lt. in the 11th R.S., he was afterwards promoted Lt., and temporarily attached to the 3rd R.S. He was reported missing in France in 1916, and later presummed killed in action."

I can't find any mention of this man on CWGC, the Scottish National War Memorial, SDGW or Officer's Died Great War. I also can't find a medal card for him and no mention is made of him in Major Ewing's book on the Royal Scots.

Any help appreciated on this mystery.

Regards

LIT

[ralphjd]

LIT, There is a medal card for a GUY LAMBIE JACK Royal Scots Fusiliers 2L/T 45 Craigmillar Road Langside Glasgow but this lad survived, any relation/ Ralph.

[Lost in Tilloy]

Hi Ralph

Thanks for your reply.

Did notice this man and had a look at his medal card. He didn't enter a theatre of war until 1918.

Not sure if he is a relation as I can't even find my man on the 1901 Scottish census! I also noticed that the NA had the following officer records:

WO339/17847, Jack G, Lieut 1916-1920

WO374/36601, Jack, Lieut GL 1917-1920;1928

I suspect the latter file is for the man you mentioned.

Regards

LIT

[MelPack]

Is this the man?

Name: JACK, GAVIN

Initials: G

Nationality: United Kingdom

Rank: Second Lieutenant

Regiment/Service: Royal Scots

Unit Text: 2nd Bn.

Age: 30

Date of Death: 25/09/1915

Additional information: Brother of Mrs. Catherine M. Watherston, of 4, Ellersley Rd., Murrayfield, Edinburgh.

Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead

Grave/Memorial Reference: Panel 11.

Memorial: YPRES (MENIN GATE) MEMORIAL

Mel

[MelPack]

LIt

here is the family on the 1891 cenus along with the Catherine, the sister mentioned on the CWGC entry:

Name: Gavin Jack

Age: 5

Estimated Birth Year: abt 1886

Relationship: Son

Father's Name: Thomas

Mother's Name: Jane G

Gender: Male

Where born: Currie, Midlothian

Registration Number: 682

Registration district: Currie

Civil Parish: Currie

County: Midlothian

Address: Hermiston Farm House

Occupation: Scholar

ED: 2

Household schedule number: 65

Line: 4

Roll: CSSCT1891_330

Household Members: Name Age

Thomas Jack 57

Jane G Jack 38

Cathrine M Jack 7

Gavin Jack 5

Archibald G Jack 4

Jack Under 1 Mo

Jessie Trame 24

Johana Ross 49

Isabella Mutter 20

Mel

[SteveE]

I believe this is the family in the 1891 Scotland Census...

Father's Name: Thomas

Mother's Name: Jane G

Registration district: Currie

Civil Parish: Currie

County: Midlothian

Address: Hermiston Farm House

Household Members: Name Age

Thomas Jack 57

Jane G Jack 38

Cathrine M Jack 7

Gavin Jack 5

Archibald G Jack 4

Jack Under 1 Mo

Jessie Trame 24

Johana Ross 49

Isabella Mutter 20

I thought Archibald G Jack may be the 'Guy' but that's a dead end as far as I can see. However his elder brother Gavin is a distinct possibility. Commisioned into the 11th Royal Scots as a Second Lieutenant, later promoted to Lieutenant and subsequently listed on CWGC although date of death looks iffy....

Name: JACK, GAVIN

Initials: G

Nationality: United Kingdom

Rank: Second Lieutenant

Regiment/Service: Royal Scots

Unit Text: 2nd Bn.

Age: 30

Date of Death: 25/09/1915

Additional information: Brother of Mrs. Catherine M. Watherston, of 4, Ellersley Rd., Murrayfield, Edinburgh.

Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead

Grave/Memorial Reference: Panel 11.

Memorial: YPRES (MENIN GATE) MEMORIAL

Regards

Steve

edit: I agree with Mel

[SteveE]

Gavin(e)'s MIC.....

[Lost in Tilloy]

Hi Mel & SteveE

Many thanks for that. Certainly all the info seems to fit [father's name, Hermiston connection, rough year of birth].

Must be him! Noticed that his medal card has the name Gavine Jack. Gavine = Guy?

I can only assume that the George Watson's info is a misprint or they were given the wrong info to begin with.

Many thanks again. Can sleep easy now knowing the mystery is solved.

Regards

LIT

[SteveE]

This is Gavin's file at the NA...

WO339/17847 JACK G, Lieut 1916-1920

The attached detail is from the Officers' Service Index showing Gavin's commission as 11/1 (11th Battalion Royal Scots).

Regards

Steve

[MelPack]

I think that this is further confirmation of the iron law that if the local rag can mangle the facts then it surely will!

Mel

[Lost in Tilloy]

Thanks for the file confirmation Steve. I'll have a look at it next time I visit Kew.

LIT

[Malcolm]

Lt Gavin (Guy) Jack is one of the men on the local War Memorial here in Currie, near Edinburgh. His entry in the book is

GAVIN (GUY) JACK

Second Lieutenant

2nd Bn., Royal Scots

who died on

Saturday, 25th September 1915. Age 30.

Additional Information: Brother of Mrs. Catherine M. Watherston, of 4, Ellersley Rd., Murrayfield, Edinburgh.

Commemorative Information

Memorial: YPRES (MENIN GATE) MEMORIAL, Ieper, West-Vlaanderen, Belgium

Panel Number: Panel 11

Location:

Ypres (now Ieper) is a town in the Province of West Flanders. The Memorial is situated at the eastern side of the town on the road to Menin and Courtrai, and bears the names of men who were lost without trace during the defence of the Ypres Salient in the First World War.

Local memorial: Currie Church panels left hand side.

Unit information

2nd Royal Scots

Plymouth 4/8/1914, 8th Bde 3rd Division.

11/11/1918 same near Solesmes

25th and 26th September 1915 Attack on Bellewarde near Hooge as a diversion for the main action which was at Loos.

From 1st Gordons War Diary who were in same Division:

Return to trenches at Hooge, relieved 3rd Worcesters;

12th September. Heavy bombardment by our artillery following three or four days, with enemy responding. Return to farm H.13D.55 for rest, relieved by 3rd Worcesters on 18th. Substantial work carried out on trenches. On 22nd September Lord Kitchener inspected brigade (2nd Royal Scots, 1st and 4th Gordons) delivered speech. Returned to Hooge trenches, relieved 3rd Worcesters.

Big attack on 25th by 3rd and 14th Divisions, with Royal Scots Fusiliers, and 1st , 4th Gordons with 2nd Royal Scots; 2nd South Lancashire Regt, and Royal Irish Rifles involved.

This attack was repulsed by the enemy whose trenches and wire were not affected by the heavy bombardment, the wire could not be cut by our cutters, very heavy casualties suffered.

Returned to bivouac 26th, back to trenches 29th September attacked enemy occupied trenches.

Officers Died in the Great War give his name as Gavine Jack

As given by Steve

1891 Scotland Census...

Father's Name: Thomas

Mother's Name: Jane G

Registration district: Currie

Civil Parish: Currie

County: Midlothian

Address: Hermiston Farm House

Household Members: Name Age

Thomas Jack 57

Jane G Jack 38

Cathrine M Jack 7

Gavin Jack 5

Archibald G Jack 4

Jack Under 1 Mo

Jessie Trame 24

Johana Ross 49

Isabella Mutter 20

If you need any more info pm me.

Aye

Malcolm

[Lost in Tilloy]

Hi Malcolm

Glad to hear he is on the Currie memorial.

It was interesting to me that he was listed in the Linlithgow Gazette as being connected with Ratho, but I suppose they aren't too far apart. The papers appears to have covered a very large area indeed.

Many thanks for the info.

LIT