John_Hartley Posted 23 March , 2009 Share Posted 23 March , 2009 QUOTE (Phil_B @ Mar 23 2009, 12:54 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Do they have good reasons for this, Paul? Yes. Surely digging up a man's remains "on spec" of making an identification is not only tasteless in the extreme, it is likely to be offensive to the descendents' of others. Should I ask them to dig up the 15 or so "known unto God" burials at Hannescamps to see if one is Great Uncle Ben who is "known to be buried" there? Whatever happened to the concept of "rest in peace"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andy saunders Posted 23 March , 2009 Share Posted 23 March , 2009 Yes. Surely digging up a man's remains "on spec" of making an identification is not only tasteless in the extreme, it is likely to be offensive to the descendents' of others. Should I ask them to dig up the 15 or so "known unto God" burials at Hannescamps to see if one is Great Uncle Ben who is "known to be buried" there? Whatever happened to the concept of "rest in peace"? As Paul Reed has already pointed out, it isn't going to happen and so - with the greatest respect - the discussion as to whether or not it should be done is rather futile! That said, in this specific case I do know that family members would have agreed if it had ever been presented as an option. However, whilst it might be possible to prove a link, any failure to get a good enough or positive DNA match might not mean the casualty isn't who he or she is supposed to be! I gather that sometimes the quality of DNA is just insufficient and one also has to be very wary about accepting the true biological lineage of supposed relatives. Without being too indelicate about this, the parentage somewhere along the way might not be exactly as everyone had happily imagined over the generations. Factor in an adoption or three along the way and one can see how results might be somewhat skewed.That is not to say that there is any suggestion that such may be the case with the Mannock family line. I merely cite this as one of many very good reasons (apart from the sanctity of resting in peace in a CWGC cemetery) as to how CWGC or even MOD policy has evolved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilB Posted 23 March , 2009 Share Posted 23 March , 2009 Good points, Andy. I suppose a completely female line is the only (fairly) reliable one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Curragh Posted 25 March , 2009 Share Posted 25 March , 2009 Elsewhere on the Forum, there has been a discussion of whether Live Chat can be used in a more organised way - one suggestion has been to hold a session to discuss the Timewatch "Aces Falling" programme. A tentative slot of 8pm (UK) Saturday 28th March is being floated to see if there is sufficient interest in this. Paul Reed has indicated that he should be available plus possibly some others who contributed to the programme. If you are interested in taking part, please PM me & we will see if we can get this off the ground. Brian (This message will also be posted to the other thread that discussed the programme) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Curragh Posted 25 March , 2009 Share Posted 25 March , 2009 Elsewhere on the Forum, there has been a discussion of whether Live Chat can be used in a more organised way - one suggestion has been to hold a session to discuss the Timewatch "Aces Falling" programme. A tentative slot of 8pm (UK) Saturday 28th March is being floated to see if there is sufficient interest in this. Paul Reed has indicated that he should be available plus possibly some others who contributed to the programme. If you are interested in taking part, please PM me & we will see if we can get this off the ground. Brian (This message will also be posted to the other thread that discussed the programme) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryn_Hammond Posted 25 March , 2009 Share Posted 25 March , 2009 Elsewhere on the Forum, there has been a discussion of whether Live Chat can be used in a more organised way - one suggestion has been to hold a session to discuss the Timewatch "Aces Falling" programme. A tentative slot of 8pm (UK) Saturday 28th March is being floated to see if there is sufficient interest in this. Paul Reed has indicated that he should be available plus possibly some others who contributed to the programme. If you are interested in taking part, please PM me & we will see if we can get this off the ground. Brian (This message will also be posted to the other thread that discussed the programme) Isn't there a problem about the person who actually wrote the 'Aces Falling' book that inspired the programme being involved in future GWF activities? With all due respect to the likes of Paul Reed, it was Peter Hart's work that the programme makers based the Timewatch episode. Hence the podcast and magazine article. Bryn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Curragh Posted 25 March , 2009 Share Posted 25 March , 2009 Bryn PM sent Regards Brian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Reed Posted 25 March , 2009 Share Posted 25 March , 2009 I was asked if I would be happy to contribute to this chat, and I am, but if it is going to upset people then I am also happy to stay at home. With respect to Bryn Hammond he has no idea what my involvement in the programme was, or indeed wasn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andy saunders Posted 25 March , 2009 Share Posted 25 March , 2009 I was asked if I would be happy to contribute to this chat, and I am, but if it is going to upset people then I am also happy to stay at home. With respect to Bryn Hammond he has no idea what my involvement in the programme was, or indeed wasn't. I would be happy to be available with Paul. if it helps? I am a little unclear as to what the "issues" are? If someone can pm or e mail me to enlighten me before I commit to participating.......? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jnorthall Posted 25 March , 2009 Share Posted 25 March , 2009 http://www.theaerodrome.com/aces/england/mannock.php http://www.theaerodrome.com/aces/england/mccudden1.php Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clio Posted 26 March , 2009 Share Posted 26 March , 2009 I am amazed the Aerodrome classifies these two British airmen as 'Aces'. I thought all aircraft had to bear a black cross before that web site deemed pilots this classification Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alex revell Posted 29 March , 2009 Share Posted 29 March , 2009 I think you'll find that Peter (Hart) would be the first to admit that the programme was in fact based on a lot of research over the years, not just his own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
per ardua per mare per terram Posted 29 March , 2009 Share Posted 29 March , 2009 That was the impression that I received from the programme. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clio Posted 30 March , 2009 Share Posted 30 March , 2009 Well I just want to thank organisers and participants for the live web chat at 20.00 on Saturday night. I thoroughly enjoyed it and learned much. I was left a little saddened that CWGC seem unlikely to change their stance with regard to the 'Unknown Airman' of Butter Lane. We know who he is though, dont we ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NigelS Posted 2 April , 2010 Share Posted 2 April , 2010 Just noticed that this is being repeated on the 'Yesterday' channel (Sky/cable/freeview) today at 5.00pm, and again at 9.00pm & midnight (NB the two later broadcasts are given as NOT being available on Freeview) NigelS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibbo Posted 2 April , 2010 Share Posted 2 April , 2010 It's also on tomorrow (Saturday 3 April) at 10am. This is available on Freeview. Yesterday broadcasts only from 6am to 6pm on Freeview. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul swann Posted 3 April , 2010 Share Posted 3 April , 2010 Drat! missed it again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnreed Posted 5 April , 2010 Share Posted 5 April , 2010 I have it on DVD if anyone requires a copy PM me John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruce Posted 5 April , 2010 Share Posted 5 April , 2010 Bearing in mind who was responsible for the programme, I would have been hugely disappointed had it been anything less than excellent. Whilst in Britain we take pleasure in knocking people off pedestals, in this case it was not possible. It was a gripping watch, and I thoroughly enjoyed it. (So did I...Ayesha) However, in reading all of this thread, might I ask what has upset Peter? It would be a great shame if he was lost to us, not least for his knowledge and humour. Bruce Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stephen p nunn Posted 2 January , 2011 Share Posted 2 January , 2011 QUOTE (Aspern @ Mar 18 2009, 06:48 PM) I see from my TV guide that this Saturday's (21st March) edition on Timewatch on BBC2 is called 'WWI Aces Falling - The story of Edward Mannock and James McCudden. Looking forward to it. Some years back I came across an obscure reference to Mannock calling in to Goldhanger (near Maldon, Essex) aerodrome on 27/3/1918. He was a flight commander with 74 Squadron at the time and they were on their way to France. A note from him indicates that they went to Goldhanger at the last minute because "the big Hun attack". The bagadge had gone on to France and Mannock was cross, wanting to get off ASAP. Anyway they decided to kill time in the lical pub - the Goldhanger Chequers (which is still there). They had a good drink and started singing their "bawdy ballads". The local chief of the village (I think I know who that would have been) objected. Mannock told him to join in or step outside for a chat. The local chief started singing! 74 left Goldhanger on 30/3/18. Mannock was killed in the July. Enjoy the programme. Regards SPN Maldon Mrs Maldon and myself called in to 'The Chequers' for lunch yesterday - great atmosphere - thinking about Mick Mannock and his time in the pub. If only those old walls could speak! SPN Maldon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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