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Problem with Service Certificate


hlough

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I have just downloaded my grandfather's service certificate and I am having trouble with understanding the first section in the Remark section which reads "per Deery League" dated 31-12-1915. This was at Victory he was a Stoker I.

Also could a new Service Certificate be issued following a sinking ie HMS Penarth sunk Feb 1919 new service certificate issued 5 March 1919 mentioned in Remarks Column.

Could someone please explain this to me? Thanks in advance

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Hello Heath,

Welcome to the Forum.

The first part of your question refers to an entry from a ledger, so the last word is Ledger not League. Can't work out what the Deery could be as a date is the usual entry, could it be Dec 15?

If a Service Certificate was lost with a vessel then a new one would be issued.

David.

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Welcome to the forum Heath,

What you have downloaded is the Admiralty's register entry, each man had his own Certificate, which is the one he los on Penarth.

Here's a previous thread on His Majesty's Ship Penarth:

 

 

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Thanks for this. I have worked out the ships served on showing in this certificate, Superb, Penarth, Heythrop, Truro the last 3 being minesweepers. I am still having problems this certificate in that he is listed as Occupation (late of S S and it looks like 102826 but could be 107826) which is I am presuming a ships ID number.

Heather

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Hello Heath,

Welcome to the Forum.

The first part of your question refers to an entry from a ledger, so the last word is Ledger not League. Can't work out what the Deery could be as a date is the usual entry, could it be Dec 15?

If a Service Certificate was lost with a vessel then a new one would be issued.

David.

Thanks for this. Date is definitely 31.12.15. In the word I am taking as League the "a" does stop at the same level as the top of the "g" however if the word is ledger would these be available to search?

Heather

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Heather,

Occupation - late of SS 102826 or 107826 is his previous service in the R.N., under a Short Service engagement of either 5 or 7 years in the R.N., with the obligation to join the Royal Fleet Reserve for 5 or 7 years respectively. Does his Official No., on the service record you have start with a K? If it does, then he transferred to Continuous Service as a Stoker on the date of the first entry of the service record which you have, & there should be another service record available online from The National Archives for his previous service.

Sorry, I don't know if any ledgers are available for research.

David.

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Guest ivorcarman

hi i am looking for any info on my grandad from the first world war

he was in the royal navy and wondered if you could help me with how to trace him in the 1914 onwards

i have looked online for any record of the ships he was on but can only get info on the ships not on the men on them

i know what ships he was on so wanted to know how or where to start looking for his records

anyone that can help?

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Heather,

Occupation - late of SS 102826 or 107826 is his previous service in the R.N., under a Short Service engagement of either 5 or 7 years in the R.N., with the obligation to join the Royal Fleet Reserve for 5 or 7 years respectively. Does his Official No., on the service record you have start with a K? If it does, then he transferred to Continuous Service as a Stoker on the date of the first entry of the service record which you have, & there should be another service record available online from The National Archives for his previous service.

Sorry, I don't know if any ledgers are available for research.

David.

David

Thank you for this. His number does start with a "K" I have tried the National Archives again but so far have failed to find anything. Any suggestions welcome.

Heather

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hi i am looking for any info on my grandad from the first world war

he was in the royal navy and wondered if you could help me with how to trace him in the 1914 onwards

i have looked online for any record of the ships he was on but can only get info on the ships not on the men on them

i know what ships he was on so wanted to know how or where to start looking for his records

anyone that can help?

Hi Ivor

David sent me a link in the message above just click on it and then type in the name you want to research and Good Luck.

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Heather,

What is his name? You need to find a record with the same name & date of birth, but with an Official No., which begins with SS.

Per ardua kindly provided the link to the National Archives.

David.

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i know what ships he was on so wanted to know how or where to start looking for his records

Welcome to the forum Ivor

Unfortunately, musters/ crew lists for Royal Navy ships do not survive for this period. The records for both officers and other ranks do. The link above is for other ranks' (ratings) registers of service.

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Heather,

What is his name? You need to find a record with the same name & date of birth, but with an Official No., which begins with SS.

Per ardua kindly provided the link to the National Archives.

David.

David

His name is Augustus Hugh Harkness born 1886,

Thank you so much for your help

Heather

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Heather,

I have searched the Seamens' Records online at the N.A., using just the surname Harkness with a wide date range of 1870 to 1900 which gave 21 results, but only one Augustus Hugh Harkness, K24502, born 9th Sept 1886, Darlington, Yorkshire.

Then I tried entering with the same date range, just the Official Nos., SS100826, 101826, 102826, 103826, 104826, 105826, 106826, 107826, 108826, & 109826. All of them except one gave results, but not of the name Harkness. SS102826, which is one of the numbers you have given, came up with no results found, which is odd as there must have been a naval rating with that number. Perhaps the National Archives missed this record when they put them online.

Sorry I can't be of more help to you.

David.

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Heather,

I have searched the Seamens' Records online at the N.A., using just the surname Harkness with a wide date range of 1870 to 1900 which gave 21 results, but only one Augustus Hugh Harkness, K24502, born 9th Sept 1886, Darlington, Yorkshire.

Then I tried entering with the same date range, just the Official Nos., SS100826, 101826, 102826, 103826, 104826, 105826, 106826, 107826, 108826, & 109826. All of them except one gave results, but not of the name Harkness. SS102826, which is one of the numbers you have given, came up with no results found, which is odd as there must have been a naval rating with that number. Perhaps the National Archives missed this record when they put them online.

Sorry I can't be of more help to you.

David.

David

Thank you for trying I have managed to crop the part of the certificate with the number and some comments. Any thoughts welcome

Heather

post-41822-1237851127.jpg

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"Remarks

"per Dec 17 Ledger

"New Service Certificate ? 5 Mar 1919

"Service Certificate issued at Grimsby 19 Sept 1919"

Edited by per ardua per mare per terram
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Thank you all for all your help. I don't know what to try next so any suggestions where to try next would appreciated to find his earlier service.

Heather

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It looks like that he was provided with with 2 new Service Certificates.

It is possible that there has been an error with the data entry. The UK National Archives still have the original index rolls for the Registers of Service.

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to find his earlier service.

The original index books to the Seamen's Registers are still held at the UK National Archives, Kew. These are available on microfilm and it should be possible to find a previous number that way.

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The original index books to the Seamen's Registers are still held at the UK National Archives, Kew. These are available on microfilm and it should be possible to find a previous number that way.

Unfortunately I will not be able to get to Kew in the near future. Will have a think about this. Once again thank you all for your help.

Heather

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He might have been a witness for the HMS Penarth Court Martial. There is a file for that at the UK National Archives, Kew.

ADM 1/8551/50 Loss of HMS PENARTH. Court Martial 1919

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He might have been a witness for the HMS Penarth Court Martial. There is a file for that at the UK National Archives, Kew.

ADM 1/8551/50 Loss of HMS PENARTH. Court Martial 1919

Asked for an estimate of HMS Penarth Court Martial = £72.45. Cant justify at moment as he may not have been there but if I ever get to Kew will certainly look.

Heather

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That must be one long Court Martial hearing!

Thats was my thought but estimate reads

A3 Mono. copies (from original documents)

161

£0.45

£72.45

Do you think it because of loss of life and 2 mines exploding. A list of Albert Medal holders lists

4 February 1919 - Lieutenant David WAINWRIGHT RN, HMS Penarth, received the Albert Medal for his part in the action. A description of his actions on link below (his is 2nd last as they are in date order and

15 July 1919 - Lieutenant-Commander Richard SCOTT RN, HMS Myrtle, is the last listed.

Hope this link of use to those looking for other info.

http://www.naval-history.net/WW1MedalsBr-AM.htm

Heather

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