Help needed…. Pte George Gaskin, Army Veterinary Corps

[Nigel Gordon]

Good evening Pals

I am researching a Great Uncle, George L.W. Gaskin who joined the Army Veterinary Corps in 1914 and went to Francs almost immediately. Then in December 1917 he was transferred to the 7th Batt. East Surrey Regiment where he saw out the war. His Grand daughter gave me some photographs of him in uniform, but I don’t think the cap badge is right for either unit? Can anyone help please?

George is standing

Regards

Nigel

Best I can do with the photo’s I have

Regards

Nigel

[SteveE]

I don’t think the cap badge is right for either unit?

You're correct, if I'm not mistaken the badge you've shown is that of the 4th (Queens Own) Hussars.

Regards

Steve

[jay dubaya]

I agree with Steve, 4th Hussars it is. There is a MIC at the NA for Pte George Gaskin here but no mention of Hussars. Are we sure the photo is of George or could it be a pre war photo and George did serve with the Hussars but not overseas and so this unit is not mentioned on the MIC

Jon

[Nigel Gordon]

Thanks Steve and Jon I also agree with you about the 4th Hussars cap badge. I was expecting to see either an AVC or East Surrey’s cap badge and didn’t have a clue where to start looking.

Regards

Nigel

[Nigel Gordon]

Hi Jon,

The simple answer to George serving pre-war is I don’t know and his family can’t shed any light on it.

I believe that the pictures are of George Gaskin. I have four pictures taken on two different occasions and handed down through his immediate family. George was nineteen in 1914 when he attested and didn’t pass away until the 1970’s so I think it may have been picked up by someone if it wasn’t him. Your reply prompted me to look again at his service and two questions became obvious. Men of the AVC would have been attached to cavalry regiments and other units with animals, but would he have had to change his cap badge to 4th Hussars to reflect this?

In December 1917 he was transferred to the 7th Battalion East Surrey Regiment, but this battalion disbanded in February 1918 and your link suggests that he went to the 2nd Battalion East Surrey. I understand that they were not in serving in France and George served all his time in that theatre. So where did he go? I suspect he stayed with the East Surrey’s otherwise he would have had another change of service number.

Any help or suggestions appreciated.

Regards

Nigel

[MelPack]

Nigel

I assume the details that you have garnered are from his burnt service papers.

The fact that he attested on 19 October and was at Le Havre with the AVC ten days lateris a pretty good indicator of his experience with horses.

If you look at the MICs for the AVC there are a good number in the 5** sequence that transferred into the AVC from the Dragoons and other cavalry units - beware of the duplicate number sequencing - George was actually in the SE 5** sequence.

Mel

PS How old was George in 1914? Is there a possibility that he could have been a time expired Special reserve?

edit; I have jus re-read the previous post and noticed that he was 19 in 1914.

[MelPack]

Nigel

If you look at the 7th Btn War Diary here:

http://qrrarchive.websds.net/menu5.aspx

All the men were distributed to either the 9th or 13th Battalion upon disbandment.

Regards

Mel

[Nigel Gordon]

Thanks Mel for your replies.

Yes I did get most of my information from his service records which a friend kindly downloaded for me from Ancestry. If he had any previous service experience would this not be reflected in his records? Could there be another set of records showing pre war service?

I haven’t seen his MIC as yet, but I read on this forum somewhere that S.E. before the number was for - Army Veterinary Corps 9th Section. What this means………… I haven’t a clue.

Unfortunately the link to the War Diary only sent me to an error page, could I ask you to post again please.

Regards

Nigel

[MelPack]

Nigel

This link should work: http://qrrarchive.websds.net/menu1.aspx?li=1

Mel

[MelPack]

Nigel

Here is the MIC but it does not add a great deal other than confirm that th NA entry was a transcription error for E. Surrey rather than 2 Surrey.

Th fact that he was 19 when he attested really confirms that the photo is WW1 vintage and it is either an unofficial re-badging for the 4th Hussars with whom he was attached or he simply borrowed the cap for the photograph.

Regards

Mel

[Nigel Gordon]

Mel

Thanks again for the link which works fine. I see the 7th went to the 8th, 9th and 13th East Surrey Reg.

Also thanks for the MIC

Regards

Nigel

[MelPack]

Nigel

There is one possibility that did occur to me - your man was only 19 when he enlisted but he could have been in the TF London Yeomanry and took a discharge to sign up with a regular unit asap. This may explain how he ended up in the AVC.

It is a great pity that the key part of the attestation paper has been destroyed.

Regards

Mel

[SteveE]

I read on this forum somewhere that S.E. before the number was for - Army Veterinary Corps 9th Section. What this means………… I haven’t a clue.

I've read that too and have never been able to find out exactly what it meant either , I'm certainly not convinced by the statement.

From what I've been able to find it appears that SE is an Army Veterinary Corps prefix that stands for 'Special Enlistment'. I believe it is the AVCs method of denoting the soldier signed up on Short Service forms for the Duration of the War only.

It also appears that they were 'Specially Enlisted' for working with horses and on a different rate of pay. I suppose it's possible he was attached to the 4th Hussars but I would have expected him to stay AVC badged. Perhaps he borrowed a cap for the photo?

Regards

Steve

[Nigel Gordon]

Hi Mel,

Thanks for your reply

I’m not sure if there was any previous military experience prior to him joining up in 1914, I will try to confirm this with George’s Grand Daughter. I suspect that it may well be a horse connection rather than military one for why he ended up in the AVC.

It is a pity that the interesting part of his service papers have been destroyed, but I have been more lucky than most. Of the five brothers who served during the war I have only been unable to find anything on one of them.

Regards

Nigel

[Nigel Gordon]

Hi Steve,

Thanks for your input.

I am inclined to come to the same judgement as you about “Special Enlistment for the duration of the war”. I have come across AVC men with service numbers ranging from SE/546, SE/7503, SE/9522 up to SE/28339, they can’t all be AVC 9th Section………could they?

Interesting your take on the cap being borrowed. I was a R.N. Photographer for 20 years and we would do that from time to time. The sections always had a clean, pristine cap just in case the sitter’s didn’t come up to standard. We would say “nobody is ever going to know or care, they just want to see your face”. It’s possible that is what has happened here with George.

Regards

Nigel