Kevin Stillyards Posted 28 March , 2004 Share Posted 28 March , 2004 Can anyone give me details of the ship H.M. Whaler "Blackwhale". Also a crew member:- TOM KIRK Deck Hand 15448DA, Royal Naval Reserve. Died 3 January 1918. Thanks Kev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malcolm Posted 29 March , 2004 Share Posted 29 March , 2004 HM Whaler BLACKWHALE Number Z.5, Admiralty Number 868. These whalers were ordered 15th March 1915 and were all built by Smiths Dock Co using designs prepared for the Russian Gov't. The expected manoeuverability of these vessels made them suitable for anti-submarine escorts in coastal waters. They were originally numbered Z 1 - 15, names came later. The first vessel was completed in June 1915. Their performance in heavy weather was less than comparable trawlers and the design was not repeated in future orders. They were 237 tons gross, 125 x 25 x 8.5 feet, 1200 ihp giving 13 knots and armed with 1 x 12 pounder. HM Whaler Blackwhale was launched 28th June 1915 and was lost when she struck a mine off Fife Ness on 3rd January 1918. These whalers served in three squadrons, one based Stornaway, one at the Shetlands and one at Peterhead or the Humber. From the information and position of the loss she would most likely be in the latter squadron between Peterhead, Aberdeenshire and the Humber. Aye Malcolm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Stillyards Posted 29 March , 2004 Author Share Posted 29 March , 2004 Malcolm, Thanks for the info. You say that these vessels were used in anti-sub escort, do you know if that was the Blackwhales role when she hit a mine, was the escort duties the main role for these vessels or was it whaling!? TOM KIRK (the deck hand on Blackwhale) was from a village on the South Humber Bank so that fits in well with the squadron being stationed in this area, or is that just a coinsidence? TON KIRK was RNR, would that be the same for the intire crew and does it mean he was RN at an earlier time? Hope you can help ... or anyone reading this. Thanks again Kev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malcolm Posted 29 March , 2004 Share Posted 29 March , 2004 Dittmar and Colledge give Escort Duties as the sole role. They do not mention minesweeping for which the Navy usually used trawlers or drifters. Tom may have been a fisherman before the war and joined the RNVR. Most smaller auxilliary vessels would be manned by RNR men perhaps with regular officers on some. It seems the squadron was based sometimes at Peterhead and sometimes at the Humber ( Hull?) which suggests escort in the North Sea coastal waters. mines were always being dropped by UBoat off the mouth of the Forth to try to sink one of the Battleships of the Grand Fleet based at Rosyth. There is a picture of the whaler Meg attached. Aye Malcolm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Stillyards Posted 29 March , 2004 Author Share Posted 29 March , 2004 Malcolm, You have been very helpful - thankyou. Just one more thing I would like to know, what was the size of the crew on a whaler. Kev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malcolm Posted 29 March , 2004 Share Posted 29 March , 2004 David, I don't really know but I would guess maybe a dozen for a ship that size. Aye Malcolm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest paul_barrett Posted 12 May , 2005 Share Posted 12 May , 2005 Can anyone give me details of the ship H.M. Whaler "Blackwhale". Also a crew member:- TOM KIRK Deck Hand 15448DA, Royal Naval Reserve. Died 3 January 1918. Thanks Kev <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Hi Kev I came across this forum via Google where I was searching for information about the Blackwhale. The reason for my search was that I am researching my family history and I am trying to find information on an enigmatic character called Lieut James Kennedy RNR. Apparently he commanded the vessel. My family knows next to nothing about this man, I have his medals which include an OBE (Mil) which was awarded for "Valuable services in command of HM Wlaer 'Blackwhale' whilst acting as leader of Coastal Convoys" and a gold pocket watch. We also have some family legend about his childhood but I know notjhing more. I cannot trace a birth or a death certificate for him. So I really have two questions: 1. Kev - did you find out any more about the Blackwhale and can you share it with me? 2. Anyone - this is a completely new field to me. I'd like to be able to research naval records or whatever other soiurces there might be. I would really appreciate some pointers on where to start and how to go about it. I'd lilke to turn this enigma into something more real. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Lowrey Posted 12 May , 2005 Share Posted 12 May , 2005 Blackwhale sank on a mine laid by the German minlaying submarine UC 49 on December 10, 1917. Best wishes, Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest paul_barrett Posted 12 May , 2005 Share Posted 12 May , 2005 Blackwhale sank on a mine laid by the German minlaying submarine UC 49 on December 10, 1917. Best wishes, Michael <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Thanks Michael. How can you be so sure of the date the mine was laid? I am intrigued....... Regards Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Lowrey Posted 12 May , 2005 Share Posted 12 May , 2005 Paul, If you have a location and a date of a sinking, it's quite possible to work out which U-boat laid the mine when by looking at the U-boat's KTBs (Kriegstagebücher = war diaries, yes they survive). The amount of minelaying along the Scottish coast is ultimately rather finite -- the Flanders-based boats didn't operate that far north which reduces the possibilities considerably. The attribution in this case ultimately comes from the German official history series Handelskrieg mit U-Booten by Admiral Arno Spindler. Spindler and his team sepnd many years working through the available information to determine, as best as possible, exactly which U-boats sank what. Best wishes, Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kin47 Posted 13 May , 2005 Share Posted 13 May , 2005 Hello In regard to the crew, twelve ratings were lost in the sinking of the ship. No officers or 2nd Hands were killed. don Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
per ardua per mare per terram Posted 13 May , 2005 Share Posted 13 May , 2005 TOM KIRK Deck Hand 15448DA, Royal Naval Reserve. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> His RNR service record will be at Kew in BT 377/7, on a microfische. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
per ardua per mare per terram Posted 13 May , 2005 Share Posted 13 May , 2005 Lieut James Kennedy RNR. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> His records will also be at Kew, this time in ADM 240. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest paul_barrett Posted 13 May , 2005 Share Posted 13 May , 2005 His records will also be at Kew, this time in ADM 240. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Excellent - many thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest paul_barrett Posted 13 May , 2005 Share Posted 13 May , 2005 Hello In regard to the crew, twelve ratings were lost in the sinking of the ship. No officers or 2nd Hands were killed. don <{POST_SNAPBACK}> So, given that the crew was only around 12 (see earlier post) that must mean that nearly the entirre crew was lost? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest paul_barrett Posted 13 May , 2005 Share Posted 13 May , 2005 It is tragic that so many of the crew were lost and it is probably of cold comfort to learn that of the officers that survived, my Great Great Uncle, Lieut James Kennedy RNR was, on 27th June 1919, awarded the OBE (Mil) 'For valuable services in command of HM Whaler 'Blackwhale' whilst acting as leader of Coastal Convoys' Source: Supplement to London Gazette 27th June 1919 That may add a little background information to any relatives of crew who served on the whaler. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Stillyards Posted 27 May , 2005 Author Share Posted 27 May , 2005 Hi Paul, Sorry it has taken so long for me to reply. I never put email notification on this topic - must remember to do that!! I have quite a lot of documents relating to the sinking of blackwhale. Including an offical naval report into the ships sinking, minutes of interviews with survivers, Lt Kennedy's report of the ships loss and a letter from the wife of Tom Kirk (see my first Post) to Lt Kennedy - but not his reply. Lt Kennedy was the last man off the ship and interesting he and the surviving crew claim to have morsed a distress signal via lamp to two passing ships in the convoy both replied but never helped. The ships identities were never discovered. Send me an email with your address and i'll post copies of everything I have to you. Kev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Bennett Posted 1 June , 2005 Share Posted 1 June , 2005 I am trying to find details of a sailor lost on HMS Blackwhale-he is on a local memorial as "Henry Gavin" but the CWGC have no-one listed under that name, could anyone please supply all the names of the Crew Members lost, so that I can check for a misspelling. Thank you Peter Bennett Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kin47 Posted 1 June , 2005 Share Posted 1 June , 2005 Hello Peter There is no crewman lost in BLACKWHALE with a name even close to Henry Gavin. I also checked the GRO death indices and he is not listed there either. It is possible he served in BLACKWHALE at some time and died after discharge. don Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Bennett Posted 1 June , 2005 Share Posted 1 June , 2005 Hello Peter There is no crewman lost in BLACKWHALE with a name even close to Henry Gavin. I also checked the GRO death indices and he is not listed there either. It is possible he served in BLACKWHALE at some time and died after discharge. don <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Bennett Posted 1 June , 2005 Share Posted 1 June , 2005 <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Hi Don, thanks for the reply, I have seen, and I will try to get a copy of, an old newspaper cutting which quotes the date of death/sinking of this ship. Will post further onfo when in possession of. Regards Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kin47 Posted 1 June , 2005 Share Posted 1 June , 2005 Hello Peter This is the BLACKWHALE list when she was lost. There was only one other death in BLACKWHALE and that was in 1916. ALBERT THOMAS J. L/TRIMMER, RNR S T 363 BLACKWHALE 03/01/18 SHIP LOSS BARLEY JOHN E. TRIMMER, RNR T S 1018 BLACKWHALE 03/01/18 SHIP LOSS BERESFORD ALFRED C.E.R.A., RNR E B 444 BLACKWHALE 03/01/18 SHIP LOSS DALTON HENRY L/TRIMMER, RNR S T 1463 BLACKWHALE 03/01/18 SHIP LOSS DUNGEY SAMUEL H. TRIMMER, RNR S T 2883 BLACKWHALE 03/01/18 SHIP LOSS ENRIGHT JOHN F. TRIMMER, RNR T S 7176 BLACKWHALE 03/01/18 SHIP LOSS GAGE GORDON W. O.D., RNCVR V R 3255 BLACKWHALE 03/01/18 SHIP LOSS KIRK TOM DECK HAND, RNR D A 15448 BLACKWHALE 03/01/18 SHIP LOSS LARVIN HENRY TRIMMER, RNR T S 1388 BLACKWHALE 03/01/18 SHIP LOSS MORRIS JAMES S. TRIMMER, RNR T S 6740 BLACKWHALE 03/01/18 SHIP LOSS SIM JOHN F. TRIMMER, RNR S T 5800 BLACKWHALE 03/01/18 SHIP LOSS TOULSON HARRY P. TRIMMER, RNR S T 2258 BLACKWHALE 03/01/18 SHIP LOSS don Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Bennett Posted 4 August , 2005 Share Posted 4 August , 2005 Thanks to all who contibuted to and assisted my search. After employing a Professional Researcher, I find Henry Gavin & Henry Larvin are one and the same person. Official Documents confirm this. Regards Peter Bennett Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angela Measures Posted 5 May , 2008 Share Posted 5 May , 2008 Have just come across the BLACWHALE exchanges from a few years ago. Does anyone have or know where I can access info on where the Whaler was in Feb 1917. Am researching the death of Petty Officer ERNEST HENRY MAYBEY 181868 who's CWGC record says he served on the BLACKWHALE but died 11 Feb 1917. Although he died before it was sunk I found all the info everyone gave on this site really interesting background. Many thanks. Angela Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
historydavid Posted 5 May , 2008 Share Posted 5 May , 2008 Angela, this is the Admiralty death record for Maybey: MAYBEY, ERNEST, H., P.O. 1c, 181868, H.M. Whaler BLACKWHALE, 11-Feb-17, ILLNESS. Best wishes David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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