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Hugh Crawford and James Crowe


alf mcm
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2 of the soldiers in this photograph are Hugh Crawford {seated right} and James Crowe {behind him}. Both men served in the 1st Dragoon Guards, numbers 10835 & 3929 respectively. They then joined the Machine Gun Corps {Cavalry} at the same time, service numbers 50887 & 50889. Hugh Crawford died on 9th April, 1918, and was awarded a posthumous Military Medal {I have been unable to find out why}. James Crowe helped to bury his friend Hugh. I would like to know which uniforms they, and the other 2 men are wearing.

post-33018-1236629796.jpg

I would appreciate any information.

Regards,

Alf McM

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Apart from the badge on the cap on the ground- and it is not obvious to whom this belonged the lanyard is the only clue.They all appear to be wearing the mounted version of service dress coloured khaki which was generic.The badge does not appear to be MGC , crossed Vickers barrels, but there are many problems in identifying cap badges because of the way in which they were sometimes angled.

Greg

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I agree with Greg - pre MGC.

Cap badge of 1st Dragoon Guards here:

post-859-1236685147.jpg

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Thanks Greg and Mel for your replies. It is a bit of a puzzle, since the only regiments Hugh and James served in were the 1st Dragoon Guards and the Machine Gun Corps.

Regards,

Alf

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I have been unable to find a Hugh Crawford died 9th April 1918 - is the man below your man?

Name: CRAWFORD, HUGH

Initials: H

Nationality: United Kingdom

Rank: Lance Corporal

Regiment/Service: Machine Gun Corps (Cavalry)

Unit Text: No. 1 Sqdn.

Age: 25

Date of Death: 04/04/1918

Service No: 50887

Awards: M M

Additional information: Son of William and Ellen Crawford, of Ballymoney, Co. Antrim.

Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead

Grave/Memorial Reference: IV. A. 1.

Cemetery: VILLERS-BRETONNEUX MILITARY CEMETERY

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Medal card of Crowe, James

Corps Regiment No Rank

1st Dragoon Guards 3529 Private

Machine Gun Corps Cavalry

This looks like it has been scanned from an old newspaper ... anything else on caption or title?

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Desmond,

You are right concerning the date and service number, I should hahe checked before I posted! The photograph comes from an article in the West Lothian Courier, in November, 1997. The author Robert Thomson was trying to contact relations to get information regarding Hugh Crawford for a book he was writing. He got a reply and Hugh's story is told in Robert's book, Ballymoney Heroes. I have not yet seen this book, and it may indicate that he served in another regiment, apart from the 1st. D.G. and M.G.C., although this seems unlikely.

Regards,

Alf

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The Ballymoney Heroes website used to be online - sadly the Ballymoney Council dropped it. Idiots!

I would start a new topic specifically asking for a Ballymoney Heroes look-up .. I don't have it but I know there are several forum members who do.

Des

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I agree with Greg - pre MGC.

Cap badge of 1st Dragoon Guards here:

post-859-1236685147.jpg

It is but the design is WW2 to present day one. Prior to 1915 it was in brass with a large title scroll below. From 1915 it was a w/m 4 pointed star with a central brass circlet.

AO

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Thanks Des,

I will open a new thread requesting a 'Ballymoney Heroes' lookup, and see what I get.

AO,

Does the badge on the cap held by Hugh Crawford look like it may be the pre 1915 version?

Regards,

Alf McM

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In my opinion Max7474 has pretty much perfectly described the cap badge in the original pic (as I see it!)

Des

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The chap back right seems to be the only one not dressed as a mounted soldier. His appear to be trousers not riding breeches. The other three are definately mounted soldiers. The Lanyard Greg refers to won't help idenity the unit as they were worn by mounted troops in all units. The chap on the front right isn't wearing one though despite he clearly wearing breeches riding boots and spurs.

Is there any significance to what appears to be the slighty darker tone of the uniforms on the two men on the right, is it just an oddity of an an old photo, is it that they are just freshly issued and havent faded? Does it help with he dating process?

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Thanks Des and Gunboat,

I have just found out that Hugh Crawford enlisted in December, 1914, into the 1st Dragoon Guards. That would explain the pre 1915 version of the badge. James Crowe, standing rear right is in fact wearing breeches. It is not obvious on the scan, but they can be seen on the photo which was scanned. The uniforms of the men on the left do appear darker, probably because they are newer. Also, because Hugh and James's uniforms are lighter, and probably older, this along with the cap badge may date the photograph to late 1914.

Regards,

Alf

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