keithmroberts Posted 15 March , 2009 Share Posted 15 March , 2009 Just been looking at a 1950 postcard of an entirely different subject, and without benefit of a heavy duty magnifier the text looks virtually identical. Could it be that many firms used some sort of stencil to apply the text? Just a thought to make life even more difficult. Keith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragon Posted 15 March , 2009 Author Share Posted 15 March , 2009 To start with, when I look at my maps, I'll concentrate on what is probably certain. The terrain, the railway line, the road, the probability of it being the GWR area and the existence of a small settlement, etc. I'm sure that in so doing, I can rule out a lot of locations. Incidentally, it's common for a drill hall to be built fairly near to a station, so that men could be assembled and transported efficiently. Some units even had to use rail to get to their practice shooting areas - eg some of the Manchester Volunteers were taken periodically to Ringway (where Manchester Airport now is). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_Hartley Posted 15 March , 2009 Share Posted 15 March , 2009 Gwyn I can't see if this has been mentioned but I'm unsure if "Spitepull" is the correct word. The second "p" in the word looks nothing like the first - although I can't think what else the letter might be. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragon Posted 15 March , 2009 Author Share Posted 15 March , 2009 I agree. It was briefly discussed here and in post #10. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tootrock Posted 15 March , 2009 Share Posted 15 March , 2009 This may help the search for the location. The following are place names in the UK beginning with Spit, with the County, Grid Ref, and Parish (n/k if Not Known). It includes those in Scotland and Ireland, which I guess are most unlikely, but when clutching at straws......! Good hunting. Regards, Martin County / OS Grid Ref or Lat / Long / Place entry / Parish or Township Aberdeenshire / NJ837227 / Spital (Keithhall and Kinkell) / Keith-Hall Aberdeenshire / NJ983426 / Spital (Old Deer) / Old Deer Angus / NO100690 / Spittal of Glenshee / n/k Berkshire / SU950750 / Spital / New Windsor Caithness / ND160540 / Spittal / n/k Cheshire / SJ340830 / Spital / n/k Cornwall / SX075524 / Spit Point / Par Cornwall / SX076525 / Spit Beach / n/k Cornwall / SX070520 / Spit Cottages / n/k Cornwall / SX070730 / Spittal / n/k Cornwall / SX080720 / Spittal Wood / n/k County Cork / 52.250486,-8.654789 / Spital / n/k County Cork / 51.634642,-8.776633 / Spital Bridge / n/k Derbyshire / SK180450 / Spitalhill / n/k Devon / SS681179 / Spittle / Chulmleigh Devon / SX708725 / Spitchwick / Widecombe in the Moor Dunbartonshire / NS470860 / Spittal / n/k East Riding, Yorks / SE767527 / Spittal / Fangfoss East Riding, Yorks / TA024795 / Spital House / Willerby East Riding, Yorks / TA024794 / Spittal House / " Fife / NT211944 / Spittal / Auchterderran Fife / NT297976 / Spittal Farm / Markinch Hertfordshire / TL370080 / Spitalbrook / n/k County Limerick / 52.379617,-8.338727 / Spittle / n/k Lincolnshire / SK960900 / Spital in the Street (Bishop Norton) / Bishop Norton Lincolnshire / TF000880 / Normanby-by-Spital / Normanby-by-Spital Lincolnshire / TF000870 / Owmby by Spital / Owmby by Spital Lincolnshire / SK910340 / Spittlegate / Spittlegate Middlesex / TQ337819 / Spitalfields / Spitalfields Middlesex / TQ337819 / Christchurch, Spitalfields / " Northumberland / NZ176865 / Spital Hill / Mitford Northumberland / NZ176865 / Spittle Hill / " Northumberland / NZ230650 / Spital Tongues / Newcastle, St Andrew Northumberland / NZ077668 / Spital / Ovingham Northumberland / NZ077668 / Spittle / " Northumberland / NU005515 / Spittal / Tweedmouth Northumberland / NZ310870 / Spital Carrs / n/k Northumberland / NY680630 / Spital Farm / n/k Northumberland / NZ290870 / Spital House Farm / n/k Northumberland / NY870580 / Spital Shield / n/k Northumberland / NY920650 / Spital; The / n/k Northumberland / NU230210 / Spitalford / n/k Northumberland / NY860580 / Spitalshield Moor / n/k Northumberland / NT760040 / Spithope Burn / n/k Northumberland / NT760030 / Spithopehead / n/k Northumberland / NY840540 / Spittal; The / n/k North Riding, Yorks / NY944126 / Spital Grange / Bowes North Riding, Yorks / NY944126 / Spital House / " North Riding, Yorks / NY942126 / Spital Park / " North Riding, Yorks / NY919121 / Spittal House / " North Riding, Yorks / SE707645 / Spittle Bridge Inn / Crambe Pembrokeshire / SM976231 / Spittal / Spittal Pembrokeshire / SM976231 / Spital / " Perth / NO100400 / Spittalfield / n/k Sussex / TQ426175 / Spithurst / n/k County Westmeath / 53.403230,-7.571383 / Spittaltown / n/k Wigtownshire / NX360570 / Spittal / n/k West Riding, Yorks / SE454239 / Spittal Hardwick / Pontefract West Riding, Yorks / SK610932 / Spital Hill / Tickhill West Riding, Yorks / SK610932 / Spittle Hill / " West Riding, Yorks / SK375977 / Spital / Wath Upon Dearne West Riding, Yorks / SK375977 / Spittle / " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Bennitt Posted 15 March , 2009 Share Posted 15 March , 2009 I used to live in Spital Tongues, Newcastle, and I can assure you it's not there! Great and fascinating thread this -- will be worthy of classic status if the mystery is solved cheers Martin B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony Gorst Posted 15 March , 2009 Share Posted 15 March , 2009 I used to live in Spital Tongues, Newcastle, and I can assure you it's not there! Great and fascinating thread this -- will be worthy of classic status if the mystery is solved cheers Martin B Fully agree shaping up to be a classic - even if we don't crack it, it shows the GWF in action at its best. I'll get on to the Edina map site tomorrow (frustratingly only accessible from work so there goes my lunch hour) and have a look at the suggestions above (I am now inclined agin Tebay as the ordering of the various features don't quite match) and see if anything pops up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CGM Posted 15 March , 2009 Share Posted 15 March , 2009 Thinking of the altered letters in SPITE F/P ULL, probably whoever wrote the label mis-heard or wrote the name wrongly. I wonder if he also misheard and wrote PULL for POOL ...? CGM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phil@basildon Posted 15 March , 2009 Share Posted 15 March , 2009 Thinking of the altered letters in SPITE F/P ULL, probably whoever wrote the label mis-heard or wrote the name wrongly. I wonder if he also misheard and wrote PULL for POOL ...? CGM This could be the name of the farm, the name Spital or Spitel is quite common in England and usually indicates a medieval hospital. An example is Spital Road in Maldon in Essex were the "hospital" is well recorded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stephen p nunn Posted 15 March , 2009 Share Posted 15 March , 2009 This could be the name of the farm, the name Spital or Spitel is quite common in England and usually indicates a medieval hospital. An example is Spital Road in Maldon in Essex were the "hospital" is well recorded. It is indeed an excellent example! Founded in 1164 the remains of the "spital" of St. Giles still stand in Spital Road. The place was originally founded for the "burgesses of this town as should have the leprosy" and the patients were "maintained on a diet of bread, beer, flesh and fish not fit to be eaten by the townspeople"! We also have a lovely Drill Hall (still used by cadets) in nearby Tenterfield Road. Regards. SPN Maldon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phil@basildon Posted 15 March , 2009 Share Posted 15 March , 2009 Just been looking at a 1950 postcard of an entirely different subject, and without benefit of a heavy duty magnifier the text looks virtually identical. Could it be that many firms used some sort of stencil to apply the text? Just a thought to make life even more difficult. Keith The photographers at that time used glass plate negatives, in this case the title was written in black ink on the negative so when it was printed it came out white. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keithmroberts Posted 15 March , 2009 Share Posted 15 March , 2009 The one I was looking at had a similar white lettering. Although posted in about 1951 it could have been made from a much older original. Since I typed my earlier comment I have filed the postcard away somewhere utterly logical and sensible. Therefore at the moment I can't find it. If I do I will scan and enlarge the text, and post it unless the enlargement persuades me to admit to complete error. Which of course is quite possible. Keith Edited - five minutes later. Humble pie applies. I found my old postcard, which I think was made from an old plate, but when I enlarged the image after scanning I found a very faint trace of the rule on the image, and the text was not exactly as on the examples here. I think mine was also prepared by the same method, but definitely by a different hand, supporting the idea that the similarities on the two examples given earlier actually do come from the same studio!. I will upload the image to photobucket, and add a link to this post shortly. http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y133/bof/sample.jpg Keith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NigelS Posted 15 March , 2009 Share Posted 15 March , 2009 Great and fascinating thread this -- will be worthy of classic status if the mystery is solved IMO worthy of classic status even if it isn't solved! Some of the terrain through which the railway passes around in the stogumber area certainly does look plausible. Although not wanting to rule the idea out, we should be careful with the post card lettering; some cards would have been produced locally, but in many cases "local" postcards may well have been published by a national company who would produce cards for sale in a specific locality with the titling either added by the photographer, who would be likely to be travelling the length and breadth of the country, or by just a handful of scribes at the publishers. It's not impossible that similarly styled titles (ie added by the same hand) might appears for locations hundred of miles apart. This is really no different from postcards sold today: you wouldn't expect a card of Land's End to be available in John O'Groats, or vice versa but the style of the card in terms of titling, etc. produced by a given company would be the same for the cards of both locations (so called "corporate styling"). It might also be possible that a wavy bar on a T may have been in common use back then. I've mentioned some of these sites previously, but to recap for anyone else thinking that they might like to join the hunt they may be of use, as, to my way of thinking, the more of us there are hunting the more likely we are to track it down! http://www.old-maps.co.uk/indexmappage2.aspx can be used to look at large scale old OS maps of most areas; certainly not likely to be as good and as easy to use as the "pro" Edina map site - Tony, I'm Jealous! - but still very useful. http://www.npemap.org.uk/ gives old 1" scale O/S maps of circa 1940 (useful when used in conjunction with the satellite/ aerials on Google maps/ multimap.com for getting a feel for the terrain and identifying features which aren't given on Google etc); modern day small scale OS maps can be found at http://www.ordnancesurvey.co.uk/oswebsite/getamap/ Good old photos of many areas of the country can be found at http://www.francisfrith.com/ and modern day ones at http://www.geograph.org.uk/ (this site also links to an OS map of the photograph locations) Unfortunately though, as yet, no sign of this illusive location; I find it hard to believe that, in such an apparently rural area, a substantial building such this would have totally disappeared from the landscape - unless, of course, the area is no longer rural or it was in the way of some other development. I would have thought it more likely that, if it's not in use today as a village hall or similar, that it would have been converted for farming, residential, cottage type industry, or what's generally termed as "light industrial", use. NigelS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockdoc Posted 15 March , 2009 Share Posted 15 March , 2009 I've been away today and it's fascinating to see how the thread's prgressed in about 12 hours. So much effort for a post-card. We must be potty! A couple of points: Another route that might fit the bill is the Severn Valley line that ran from Kiddermisnter through Bridgnorth (where it now ends) to Shrewsbury. It was GWR, ran through varied terrain, has the Severn nearby and it's limestone country. The train is standing at a signal. Lines are signalled in sections and only one train is allowed in each section - known as a block - at any one time. On single-track lines - and many GWR secondary lines were - the drivers had to carry a token, called a train staff, to show they had permission to be in a given block. The staff was handed to the next signalman who had to put it into a special machine that was interlocked to the signals and points before he could change any settings, withdraw another staff and allow a train travelling in the opposite direction to move on. If several trains had to go in the same direction, the signalman issued all but the last with a ticket and gave the staff to the driver of the last one. That 'Home' signal is probably at the end of a signal box's zone of control and is being used to hold it there because the next section of line is not clear. So what? There's a physical limit to the length of wire a signalman could pull by hand so that signal is probably within a mile or so of a station, which would fit with the idea that there's a settlement nearby that the DH was built to serve. Keith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phil@basildon Posted 15 March , 2009 Share Posted 15 March , 2009 I think most of us are agreed it is a GWR locomotive. The only locomotive that fits the bill is a 45XX class 2-6-2T. These were introduced in 1911 if you want to check look at post no. 88. As most agree that the postcard is pre WW1 it may be easy to tie down even more the location. There seems to be a lot of GWR experts out there can anyone tell us were that type of locomotive was allocated from 1911 to 1914? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockdoc Posted 15 March , 2009 Share Posted 15 March , 2009 One point to bear in mind with this: the postcard could have been produced with only a handful of sales in mind. You could buy photographic paper that had the back of a postcard already printed on one side and many of us will remember the seaside photographers who took a photo as you wandered along the front with no obligation to buy a print. I have a postcard of my Grandfather's taken at Newfoundland Farm on Salisbury Plain in May 1914. It has about twenty soldiers who are using the old farm-house as a wash-house and, in his message, he tells my Gran that it cost him 2d. It also has generally the same kind of lettering. Keith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CGM Posted 15 March , 2009 Share Posted 15 March , 2009 Rockdoc - The Severn Valley Line has a couple of interesting places - near Kidderminster. RIFLE RANGE HALT (SITE OF) RIFLE RANGE HALT Rifle Range Halt was only open from 1905 to 1920 and was mainly used by Yeomanry volunteers training on the adjacent heath during World War I. Traces of the range they used still exist nearby, although the Halt has now disappeared completely. Worcestershire canal which was completed in 1770 and opened up an important link between the Severn and the Black Country. THE DEVIL’S SPITTLEFUL The sandstone outcrop now almost hidden by pine trees, is named after a legend claiming that the Devil dropped it here on his way to dam the river Severn. CGM http://www.svr.co.uk/downloads/svr_window_booklet.pdf (SHEET 7) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daggers Posted 15 March , 2009 Share Posted 15 March , 2009 Looking good! Anyone nearby or with a map for us? Can't wait! D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
centurion Posted 15 March , 2009 Share Posted 15 March , 2009 One point to bear in mind with this: the postcard could have been produced with only a handful of sales in mind. You could buy photographic paper that had the back of a postcard already printed on one side As I said a few postings back Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Inspector Posted 15 March , 2009 Share Posted 15 March , 2009 Hi All Plenty on Google, looks far too flat to me. Tebay is very close to Shap Quarries which still supply Corus with Limestone! What are the odds today? Regards Barry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NigelS Posted 15 March , 2009 Share Posted 15 March , 2009 Sorry Guys - nice try, but it doesn't look quite right! got to http://www.old-maps.co.uk/indexmappage2.aspx select "maps" and enter co-ordinates 380800 274300 for smaller scale go to http://www.npemap.org.uk/tiles/map.html#380,274,1 for aerial on Google http://tinyurl.com/dcodsg (follow the track to the east!) IMO the area doesn't look hilly enough; there is only one railway track and no sign of another linear feature (ie canal or other railway track running parallel); no sign of there ever having been any of the other buildings shown in the photo, other than a farm (droppingwell) in possibly the correct (?) relationship to the railway track for the one next to the drill hall. NigelS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phil@basildon Posted 15 March , 2009 Share Posted 15 March , 2009 Has anyone thought of the area around Bristol? for example the Avon valley or the area around Cheddar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisharley9 Posted 16 March , 2009 Share Posted 16 March , 2009 Chris and Phil. I am not suggesting Stogumber as the location, but anywhere along the West Somerset. Taunton, Norton Fitzwarren, Bishops Lydyeard, Crowcombe, Williton, Watchet, Washford, Blue Anchor, Dunster or Minehead. The theory is based on the Postcard series idea. Wish I lived down there as it would be an excellent day out to ride the line and investigate furthur. Phil. Phil sorry just a tad of misunderstanding there based on the West Somerset Railway theory I can rule out the following stations Minehead, Dunster & Blue Anchor - any photo from that viewpoint would show the sea behind the station Watchet - again the sea & harbour would be visible Chris Williton - would have the village in front or behind the station Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phil@basildon Posted 16 March , 2009 Share Posted 16 March , 2009 Phil sorry just a tad of misunderstanding there based on the West Somerset Railway theory I can rule out the following stations Minehead, Dunster & Blue Anchor - any photo from that viewpoint would show the sea behind the station Watchet - again the sea & harbour would be visible Chris Williton - would have the village in front or behind the station I have looked at the area down from Watchet going towards Minehead, it is still a possibility, the other line would have been the West Somerset Mineral Railway. This line had re-opened briefly in 1907-09 (it had closed in 1898). I have looked on Google Earth but if this is the place the drill hall is long gone. The GWR 45XX class which I am certain is the locomotive in the photo was introduced in 1906 not 1911 as I stated before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phil@basildon Posted 16 March , 2009 Share Posted 16 March , 2009 Try Lower Washford Grid Reference SS047414. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now