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Mystery drill hall - help sought, please


Dragon
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Swansea ValleyThis link gives some idea of the layout of the land in the Ystayfera area of the Swansea Valley although not the widest section of this paricular valley.

Myrtle

There is a railway station named Spital on the Wirral peninsular, it is the next stop south of Port Sunlight. The railway was a joint line operated by the GWR/LNWR the train would therefore be a GWR train because the dome on the locomtive is polished brass. If this is a GWR train it helps date the photograph to the 1912-19 period when the GWR painted their passenger stock crimson lake instead of their usual chocolate and cream, this is why I had discounted it as a GWR train.
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There is a railway station named Spital on the Wirral peninsular, it is the next stop south of Port Sunlight. The railway was a joint line operated by the GWR/LNWR the train would therefore be a GWR train because the dome on the locomtive is polished brass. If this is a GWR train it helps date the photograph to the 1912-19 period when the GWR painted their passenger stock crimson lake instead of their usual chocolate and cream, this is why I had discounted it as a GWR train.

But the Wirral is not noted for its deep valleys.

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The Churnet Valley has Mills, mines and a Railway. Are we getting warmer?

Phil.

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No because the Churnet Valley line was North Staffs and the other lines in the area were LNWR. The chance of a GWR locomotive in the area is very slim indeed. To the best of my knowledge, apart from the Cheshire Lines Committee Joint Railway that the GWR used to reach Birkenhead, the only other line operated by a different company that the GWR was not a part of the management and could use freely was the Great Central's London Extension (Sheffield to Marylebone) because it was built to the Continental loading gauge. but I don't know whether the GWR had running rights over the GC.

Keith

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Rudyard had a narrow gauge railway that ran alongside the lake. Interesting to find out that Rudyard Kipling's parents used to visit the area and that is why their son was given the name Rudyard.

Myrtle

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Breakdown of the drill halls mentioned in #113 :

Wales:

Anglesey … 1 Flint … 6

Brecknock … 3 Glamorgan … 30

Caernarvon … 10 Merioneth … 3

Cardigan … 2 Montgomery … 4

Carmarthen … 2 Pembroke … 3

Denbigh … 9

Monmouth … 23

This was the figure in 1952 of Drill halls selling drink on a Sunday

Grant

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Breakdown of the drill halls mentioned in #113 :

Wales:

Anglesey … 1 Flint … 6

Brecknock … 3 Glamorgan … 30

Caernarvon … 10 Merioneth … 3

Cardigan … 2 Montgomery … 4

Carmarthen … 2 Pembroke … 3

Denbigh … 9

Monmouth … 23

This was the figure in 1952 of Drill halls selling drink on a Sunday

Grant

Wondering why Radnorshire Drill Halls are not included.

Myrtle

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Might have been a "dry" hall

Grant

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mmmm Spite Hall looks promising

Checked Edina maps for Rudyard - County Series Second Revision map dated 1925 is below. I am reading the Postcrad as being of St Gabriels Church and memoral hall more or less in the centre of the map - is there a date on the postcard - I will have a look for an earlier map

post-37471-1236950995.gif

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Edina map County series first revision 1900 - below - Church and memorial hall don't appear to be there. what's bugging me though is the body of water in the Rudyard postcard looks way big and is marked as a reservoir - doesn't seem to sit or fit the drill hall picture.

edit Anyone want maps of Trecwn posted?

post-37471-1236951138.gif

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Breakdown of the drill halls mentioned in #113 :

Wales:

Anglesey … 1 Flint … 6

Brecknock … 3 Glamorgan … 30

Caernarvon … 10 Merioneth … 3

Cardigan … 2 Montgomery … 4

Carmarthen … 2 Pembroke … 3

Denbigh … 9

Monmouth … 23

This was the figure in 1952 of Drill halls selling drink on a Sunday

Grant

Drill halls selling drink on a Sunday?? 10 in Caernarfonshire? in extreme temperence land in 1952? No way Jose! Where did these figures come from Grant. Were Drill Halls recognised as an official Exservicemen's Club with a license to sell drink to members only?

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Drill halls selling drink on a Sunday?? 10 in Caernarfonshire? in extreme temperence land in 1952? No way Jose! Where did these figures come from Grant. Were Drill Halls recognised as an official Exservicemen's Club with a license to sell drink to members only?

I did give a link in post #113 (as mentioned)

It's from a house of commons archive made by Mr Antony Head (Secretary of State for War 1951 - 1956) on 4th March 1952 in reply to the question set by a Mr Watkins concerning the number of drill halls in Wales have been authorised to allow the sale of intoxicating drinks on Sundays.

Seems strange if it was, Radnorshire was a "Wet" county.

Well the drill halls were obviously dry as they wern't selling drinks on a Sunday

Grant

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Hmmm! Most interesting Grant. Thanks for that. Sorry for the sidetracking Gwyn!

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Drill halls in Wales – potentially relevant counties

This list is not exhaustive.

1. Not all drill halls were recorded.

2. Some communities had drill stations which were known locally as the drill hall, but not recorded as one. These are marked ds and italicised. But -

3. Some communities had no purpose-built premises but made do with borrowed ones (school halls, barns, town halls, assembly rooms, etc). These are also marked ds and italicised. Unfortunately it isn't possible to tell whether #2 or #3 applies.

4. Some English recorders of Wales gave up with the language barrier.

5. Even the army didn’t keep full records. In some cases they have simply been thrown away, or never existed, or we know them to be wrong.

6. I have omitted drill halls that we know are not this drill hall because we’ve seen them, or they aren’t in the right place (eg this is obviously not Cardiff or Anglesey; or if a DH was built in the centre of a town it isn’t this one). I'm still editing this but wanted to get a list online.

Counties and names as in 1914.

Database extracts deleted to save space!

Edited by Dragon
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There looks like a tablet of some sort on the left hand gable. Is it possible to enlarge the photograph to see if anything is written on it?

Phil - yes: Please see here.

Unfortunately I believe it to be blank. I suspect that whatever was planned for it hasn't yet been put up. Nothing is distinguishable under very high magnification.

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I thought the circular 'tablet' might have been a clock, or a space for it.

There is a GWR Forum, but I know nothing about it, nor GWR, but someone may have the patience to enter it in case of the need for even more expertise. I have been fascinated at the development of this search - yet another example of what this forum is capable of.

D

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It certainly wasn't unknown for drill halls to be presented with a clock by a benefactor. Eccles was one, though that was internal. Comparing the disc with the dimensions of the doors, it's quite a large tablet.

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There is a railway station named Spital on the Wirral peninsular, it is the next stop south of Port Sunlight.

I 'did' the drill halls of Wirral in January. Spital and Port Sunlight would come under Birkenhead. There's a listing of 1 VB Cheshire Regt at New Chester Road, New Ferry (which is virtually Port Sunlight), but I'm sorry to say that the terrain round Birkenhead is nothing like the photo.

I appreciate your interest, though - thanks.

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Gwyn, of the places on your list I would have said that Corris, Usk, Portmadoc and Criccieth were not this site. Corris doesn't have a main-line railway anywhere close and Usk is a compact little place on the side of a river. Portmadoc and Criccieth are at the sea-side, of course so there aren't any hills of this size.

Keith

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I maybe clutching at straws here but this has got me seriously intrigued. I don't know why but I keep coming back to Tebay as a possibility, maybe the topography just looks right. Anyway have a look at this which I found on t'web and see what you think http://www.flickr.com/photos/barkingbill/3156082417/./

I wonder if this is taken from behind the middle set of cottages with the veg plots on the right looking across the valley back towards where the drill hall is/was, maybe just out of shot on the left. Anyone know anyone in Tebay?

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I can well see why you think of Tebay because the countryside is very much the right type. The line is the LNWR West Coast Main Line, though, so the locos would have had a very, very different outline to the tank we have in this photo. All LNWR boilers were parallel and this is tapered.

PCT_068.jpg

Keith

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I can well see why you think of Tebay because the countryside is very much the right type. The line is the LNWR West Coast Main Line, though, so the locos would have had a very, very different outline to the tank we have in this photo. All LNWR boilers were parallel and this is tapered.

PCT_068.jpg

Keith

Further study of the locomotive in the photograph has what looks like a polished brass dome and a light coloured cab roof, also the carriages appear to be painted the same colour as the locomotive. This would rule out the GWR as most of their locomotives did not have polished domes. The most likely candidate is the Midland railway, the countryside is reminicent of the southern end of the Settle and Carlilse line in Yorkshire.
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