Martin Bennitt Posted 10 April , 2009 Share Posted 10 April , 2009 Great show, Andy, but a bit spooky, especially the empty railway track. cheers Martin B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPAE Posted 10 April , 2009 Share Posted 10 April , 2009 Thanks Andy, This thread has a place in my heart! I loved the detective nature of it all, and the red herrings that surfaced. A postcard was recently shown on the forum with a similar request but was answered in post 2 !. I'm glad it didn't happen here. Great photos. Cheers, Phil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daggers Posted 10 April , 2009 Share Posted 10 April , 2009 Well done. Great signing-off moment. D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Bennitt Posted 10 April , 2009 Share Posted 10 April , 2009 still needs the Classic Thread accolade, IMHO cheers Martin B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockdoc Posted 10 April , 2009 Share Posted 10 April , 2009 It's a prime example of the Forum working together to solve what, under most circumstances, would have been an impossible conundrum. Giving it a Classic Thread status would be appropriate, IMO. What's the procedure to harass the Mods to get it given the nod? It's had over 7, 000 views as I type this, confirming the interest it generated amongst the wider community. Keith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiegeGunner Posted 10 April , 2009 Share Posted 10 April , 2009 still needs the Classic Thread accolade, IMHO I'll second that. A superb example of the forum at its best, with Pals working together to investigate and ultimately solve a mystery. I pride myself on being able to decipher unreadable handwriting, but I am nevertheless still in awe of the railway enthusiasts who looked at a long dark smudge in the middle distance and told us everything about the train bar for the name of the driver and fireman. And no, chaps, that's not a challenge ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stiletto_33853 Posted 10 April , 2009 Share Posted 10 April , 2009 Your wish, as they say It certainly merits its place in the classics section. Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phil@basildon Posted 10 April , 2009 Share Posted 10 April , 2009 told us everything about the train bar for the name of the driver and fireman. And no, chaps, that's not a challenge ... If we could identify the locomotive number and the exact date we could possibly do so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockdoc Posted 10 April , 2009 Share Posted 10 April , 2009 Thanks, Andy. You're a good 'un! Keith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hywyn Posted 10 April , 2009 Share Posted 10 April , 2009 Would it be an idea if a Mod could insert the Then 'original' photo into Post 398 where Andy has provided the Now ? Hywyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NigelS Posted 10 April , 2009 Share Posted 10 April , 2009 .. I knew that top "railway track" was a road It is now, but I believe originally - and possibly at the time of the photo - that it was the course of a tramway. Using the old maps at http://www.old-maps.co.uk/indexmappage2.aspx (enter co-ordinates 321300 & 194000 ) the 1885 map shows "Spiteful Row" as a row of small dwellings; running between them is a track - panning south shows this to be labelled "tramway". The 1902 maps show that some of the cottages of Spiteful Row have disappeared because of the expansion of Abercarn Colliery Junction, but the tramway is still there running in front of the more recently built Wencraig cottages and behind Tredegar Place (renamed York Place by 1938), neither of which are on the 1885 map. Interestingly the 1902 map indicates that the tramway - if it was indeed such - has been re-routed to avoid what must have been a very nasty curve in its course where it crossed the gully carrying the Nant Y crochan just behind and to the North of Tredegar (York) Place. A network of such tramways, which would probably have pre-dated the railway, were, apparently, used to transport coal from local mines down to Newport for shipment by sea. (see http://www.caerphilly.gov.uk/cwmcarnforest...istory/coal.htm for further details of the history of coalmining in the area ) Great to see that this thread has been promoted to "Classic", certainly well deserved; it's proven to be every bit as enjoyable as a good detective novel/film with plenty of blind alleys and red herrings (mine included ) and thoroughly entertaining to boot. NigelS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gillchadwick Posted 10 April , 2009 Share Posted 10 April , 2009 Llangollen railway? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phil@basildon Posted 10 April , 2009 Share Posted 10 April , 2009 It has been confirmed that there was two railway lines in the photograph, they actualy combined at a junction a short distance to the left of the photograph. The road may have once been a tramway but a long time before the photograph was taken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stiletto_33853 Posted 10 April , 2009 Share Posted 10 April , 2009 Would it be an idea if a Mod could insert the Then 'original' photo into Post 398 where Andy has provided the Now ? Hywyn Done, Hope that this is the photograph you wanted inserting. Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phil@basildon Posted 10 April , 2009 Share Posted 10 April , 2009 Done, Hope that this is the photograph you wanted inserting. Andy The drill hall was were the brown building is now (just below the arrow) the arrow is pointing at the site of the farm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShirlD Posted 11 April , 2009 Share Posted 11 April , 2009 What an amazing, fascinating read this has been for me on Good Friday evening - everyone is clamouring for their turn on the computer! Well done to all Cheers Shirley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hywyn Posted 11 April , 2009 Share Posted 11 April , 2009 Done, Hope that this is the photograph you wanted inserting. Andy Yes, that'e the one. Thanks Andy. Hywyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NigelS Posted 11 April , 2009 Share Posted 11 April , 2009 Following the course of the upper (western) railway track - the one which was thought might have been a canal before Gwyn got the magnifying glass out - on the 1922 & 1938 maps ( http://www.old-maps.co.uk/indexmappage2.aspx enter co-ordinates 321300 & 194000 ) to both the north & south shows it labelled as "Hall's Road tramway" (also, apparently, known as Hall's Tramroad). This site: http://www.crosskeys.me.uk/history/local.htm gives a local history time line which includes its development: originally started as a tramway in 1805 - so it predated steam railways by quite a few years - and subsequently extended before a section of it was taken over by the GWR in 1877; From some "chatter" about it on this forum http://www.rmweb.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&p=410003 the route seems to have still existed as late as the 60s/70s NigelS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Barbara Posted 11 April , 2009 Share Posted 11 April , 2009 Very well done, I've thoroughly enjoyed following this thread. Barbara.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grantowi Posted 12 April , 2009 Share Posted 12 April , 2009 It is now, but I believe originally - and possibly at the time of the photo - that it was the course of a tramway. On the 1902 map the "road" links up to chapel farm terrace (the houses at the left hand bottom of Andys photo), it proberly did start out as a tramway to get coal from the colliery to the main railway line, but once the railway was extended into the "Prince of Wales colliery" and further upthe valley, the tramway would have been redundent, the tracks removed to be reused elsewhere and have reverted to a track or "road" Grant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NigelS Posted 12 April , 2009 Share Posted 12 April , 2009 Grant I think we may have been talking at cross purposes ; My response to your comment ".. I knew that top "railway track" was a road" that you gave in post #400 was made in the belief - I now believe mistakenly, for which I apologise - that you were referring, not to the road shown in AndyB's photo alongside the railway track, but to the dark linear feature on the original drill hall photo which runs from the white building at the extreme left, behind Tredegar/ York Place and then in front of Wengraig. My interpretation is that it's this feature which was the route of the original Hall's Tramroad/ Hall's Road Tramway which was later taken over by the GWR for its Pennar Branch (which it would have been at the time of the photo) as it can be followed on the old maps - admittedly with difficulty - from Risca to Manmoel Colliery (and beyond) via a tunnel at Pennar as detailed at http://members.lycos.co.uk/cardiffrail/GWR...nar-Branch.html I don't believe that the road/track in Andy's Photo (which, as you say, is the one which runs from Chapel Farm Terrace up to the front of Tredegar/York Place), was ever part of a tramway as it appears not to have existed before Tredegar Place was built and probably only came into existence at that time to provide access to those properties. Again apologies if I mis-interpreted what you were saying in #400. NigelS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragon Posted 27 May , 2009 Author Share Posted 27 May , 2009 I've been away from the forum for a couple of months (scary health worry, stress and a long holiday to stop me unravelling) and just want to say a huge thank you for the extra information, and especially for Andy's up-to-date photos which complete the picture. It's sad to have seen the start of a building which was probably built with great pride and community spirit, built to contribute to whatever national defence priorities pertained at the time, built for people's dances and performances, and its end: demolished within the century, all its imprinted memories lost without trace, to be replaced by an anonymous, meritless bit of architecture which will have gone in a decade. I remain amazed that the scan which practically seized up my computer, and which I nearly deleted as I thought no-one could possibly make anything out of a streak of a train, was a key - indeed, you wouldn't even notice the train without magnification. And I was also lucky - weird sort of luck, I suppose - to have access to the sort of specialist magnifiers which are supplied to nearly blind people, without which I couldn't have picked out details like tracks and fences. The very fact of scanning and reproducing deletes information and people will have to take my word for what is visible on the physical card. Many thanks to everyone who has contributed and to whoever transported this thread to the Classics section. Apologies that it's taken a while to get back to you. Gwyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NigelS Posted 27 May , 2009 Share Posted 27 May , 2009 Hi Gwyn Welcome back; sincerely hope it was just a scare. Now your back in harness, so to speak, have you any other mystery photos to keep us entertained ? All the best NigelS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Bennitt Posted 27 May , 2009 Share Posted 27 May , 2009 Welcome back, Gwyn, I'm sure some of us were beginning to wonder where you had gone. Hope you are okay now and you enjoyed the holiday I'll second Nigel's call for another puzzle cheers Martin B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockdoc Posted 27 May , 2009 Share Posted 27 May , 2009 Glad to see you back here, Gwyn. Like the others, I eagerly await your next puzzle! Keith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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