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50% buried 50% memorial


Guest KevinEndon
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Guest KevinEndon

Looking through the memorial where I lived it shows that 50% of the soldiers are in named graves and 50% are on memorials. Is this about right or is it a larger than normal amount of soldiers without graves, hope some others can fill in the answer.

Kevin

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Dunno about those figures but here's some more for you.

The various memorials to the missing at Gallipoli record some 27,000 names. CWGC has some 12000 "unknowns" in the cemeteries there, which leaves 15000 still "out there somewhere".

John

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Martin Middlebrook calculated that there are about 35,000 unidentified burials in the Somme cemeteries, which is roughly half the number of names on the Thiepval Memorial to the Missing.

Tom

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CWGC has 587,989 in named graves from WW1 and 526,816 on memorials to the missing. So 50% is about right.

There are 187,861 graves for Unknown soldiers and so that leaves 338,955 as truely 'missing'. However, this figure will include those lost at sea.

Remember that many of those on memorials do have graves but they are the Unknowns.

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Dunno about those figures but here's some more for you.

The various memorials to the missing at Gallipoli record some 27,000 names. CWGC has some 12000 "unknowns" in the cemeteries there, which leaves 15000 still "out there somewhere".

John

I rather thought that a not insubstantial number were buried at sea (and some lost at sea) but appear on the land memorials?

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Nigel

Yes. The memorials include sea burials. Not got a clue how many that might be - it wasnt relevent to the question I'd asked to get the answer. Any thoughts as to how "not insubstantial" those numbers might be?

John

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Hi John:

I suppose I was really making the point that whereas a lot of the men who dow in F and F, for example, would have a named grave, anyone taken off for treatment on a hospital ship and died there would have been, I suppose, buried at sea. Thus the Gallipoli campaign is rather unusual. Then there are those who died on torpedoed/mined otherwise lost ships who were not navy - assuming that naval personnel appear on naval memorials. How you work it out, I do not know; some doubtless have the fact that they died and were buried at sea in the register; and I seem to recall from the Helles Memorial that there were particular references to lost ships. However, it is seven years or so since I was in Gallipoli and memory plays tricks.

"There are also panels for those who died or were buried at sea in Gallipoli waters." The answer to my ramblings - this off the CWGC site. So it should be just a matter of totting these numbers up; whatever, the number of unburied dead is horrific.

Regards,

Nigel

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Hello Kevin,

I have detailed records for the Worcestershire Regiment which will add some definite figures for you.

1st Battalion has 55% on Memorials

2nd Battalion has 54% on Memorials

3rd Battalion has 50% on Memorials

4th Battalion has 64% on Memorials

So the average of the four Battalions is 56% Memorials 44% Named Grave.

Regards Mike Jones

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Guest KevinEndon

Thanks to everyone who has replied, can I now ask what roughly what was the ratio of serving folks to those who died,

Kevin

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Hello Kevin,

That is more problematic. Some Battalions of the Worcesters never went abroad, so the death rate as you can imagine was nil. For men that served in a theatre of war, it is generally accepted that ONE in FOUR was going to die. Very bad odds when the stake was your life.

I have only checked out the 2nd Bn. Worcestershire Regiment but of 1,564 winners of the 1914 Star, 437 were to die before War ended. That is a 28% death rate.

Regards Mike

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Thanks to everyone who has replied, can I now ask what roughly what was the ratio of serving folks to those who died,

Kevin

It depends on what branch of the army - whilst infantry in France and Flanders would have had a higher ratio than, say, the infantry who served in Italy; and the navy and the air force would be different again. Then there is the question of those kia (or dow as a result of action) and those who died of disease, accidents etc. In so far as the figures are not 100% reliable (they are good enough) you could spend some time ploughing through Statistics of the Military Effort of the British Empire and you might come up with some ball park figures. But they would have to be hedged around with all sorts of buts, maybes etc.

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I have seen a source whose author says his figures are based on the Official Histories.

For Great Britain and Empire he gives a figure of 8,904,467 as the number mobilised of whom 908,371 died - approx 10.2%.

Tom

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Guest KevinEndon

Many thanks Tom and others, now I can give the kids at school a bit of info on numbers in relation to the class size.

Kevin

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Hi Kevin,

The rate of attrition for the 2nd Battalion Worcestershire Regiment (1914 Star Holders) was worse than 28% I quoted earlier. Sorry for giving you the wrong information. I forgot to include approx. 210 men that transferred to other regiments. I have not tracked their fate (yet) but at a 4 to 1 death ratio, another 52 were going to die. So for the this particular Bn., ONE in THREE men was going to die before war ended.

Regards Mike

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