Tank depicted on map

[Yeomans]

I think this is a possible candidate but my copy of the photograph isn't sufficiently clear to read the three digit number on the tank. Can anyone help ?

Nick

[Gerald Moore]

Many thanks for posting this photo, Nick - it's one I hadn't seen before. I would agree that it is a good candidate to be the tank indicated on Tim's map. Your photo shows a MkII female tank, identifiable by the shape of the sponsons and what appears to be a wedge shaped roof hatch. If I can make out the trench sign correctly, the photo was taken at the junction of Tank Avenue communication trench. Tim's map shows the wreck lying at the intersection of Tank Avenue and a disused trench (noted as a eastward extension of Tower Reserve on other maps). The wreck in the photo may be 585 (Lt. Macilwaine/Bean's wreck 5) or 593 (Lt. Morris/Bean's wreck 2). Having seen this photo, I now suspect that the wreck shown on Tim's map is not Lt. Bernstein's (he commanded 798, a MkII male or 531, a MkI female).

[Yeomans]

Gerald - the trench boards read Tank Avenue and Horseshoe Lane. My trench map for the period just after First Bullecourt shows a short stretch of Tank Avenue but does not show Horseshoe Lane but then I do not know the date of the photograph. Do you have a later map that indicates the position of Horseshoe Lane ?

Nick

[Yeomans]

Gerald - sorry forgot to ask how we are able to eliminate 590 as a possible candidate ? We know Clarkson was in the last of the four Mk II females and the tank in the picture certainly isn't 586.

Nick

[Gerald Moore]

Thanks for that additional info, Nick, which confirms your suspicion about the tank in the photo being the wreck indicated on Tim's map. I have a trench map from later in 1917 showing Horseshoe Lane - it was an eastward extension of Tower Reserve which crossed Tank Avenue at the location of the wreck shown on Tim's map. I suspect that your photo was taken in the early spring of 1918.

According to Watson and Bean's accounts, Lt. Money's tank was in the wire at OG1 when it was destroyed (this was probably tank 590 as shown in the diagram attached to the D Bn. war diary). That would place the wreck of Money's tank about 500 yds. north of the wreck noted on Tim's map. I can send the various maps and diagram, and some photos of a wreck which might be 590 - let me know by PM how best to reach you.

[Yeomans]

Gerald - many thanks for your further thoughts on this. I have sent a PM giving contact details.

[trajan]

Not certain if this has been posted elsewhere - from SALON: 

 

First World War Recovery Richard Osgood FSA, Senior Archaeologist at the Defence Infrastructure Organisation, is the archaeological lead for a project that has excavated on a First World War battlefield in northern France. In the latest investigation by Operation Nightingale, supported by Help for Heroes, injured veterans recovered parts from a heavily shelled British tank, and the remains of two German soldiers who had died at the scene.   Using contemporary records and a geophysical survey carried out by Cranfield Forensics Institute, the team located Tank 796 (D23). Commanded by 2nd Lieutenant Skinner MC, it had been knocked out in the first Battle of Bullecourt (part of the Battle of Arras) on 11 April 1917, and later used as a German machine-gun emplacement. The excavation in June found a large section of the tank's track, several of its six-pounder shells, part of its driving chain and possible armour. Some of the original colour scheme survived on the tracks (right): in what might seem an ironic joke, it was racing green. The parts will be conserved and, it is hoped, eventually exhibited.   Dickie Bennett of Breaking Ground Heritage, who facilitated the project, said in a release, 'Breaking Ground Heritage was set up to support Operation Nightingale in providing wounded, injured and sick service personnel and veterans alike the opportunity to take part in credible and meaningful archaeological and heritage projects to promote recovery or assist in the transition from service to civilian life.' This was the first of several such projects, he said, in which veteran excavators mentored newer members in archaeological techniques. 'Veterans have so many transferable skills that are compatible with the heritage industry,' he added.   Osgood (seen left at the site with Colonel Clingan) told Salon that they think ('at this early stage') that the two men with the tank were Prussians, and perhaps part of the gun crew which used it after it had been shelled. 'There is a map in Canberra', he says, 'of the Hindenburg Line and a destroyed tank which was used as an "MG position".' Following detailed forensic analysis by the Commonwealth War Graves Commission, the remains will be buried in a German military cemetery.   In the statement, Osgood commented on the team's reactions to the excavation. 'The respect shown for their military forebears was palpable,' he said, 'and it was a privilege to be on site with them. We were also humbled by the warmth shown to us by the French villagers and by their perpetuation of the memory of the soldiers who died in their fields.'   PS: Emphasis added

Edited 1 August , 2017 by trajan
Emphasis added

[delta]

Thanx for sharing; I did not believe that this info was in the public domain. 

 

I am surprised that the tracks were racing green as I understood they were bare metal - proves how little I know

[diver99]

On ‎04‎/‎03‎/‎2009 at 13:47, TEW said:

Forum,

Hoping for some help in identifying the tank depicted on this map. The map is dated 25/9/1917 and relates to MG posts, Coy HQ’s, Bn HQ, observation posts, and dugouts of the 2/6th West Yorks in ‘London Support’ to the east of Bullecourt i.e. the OG1 attacked by the 46th AIF on 11/4/1917.

The map depicts a ‘Tank’ at U.28.d.6.8. 

Thanks in Advance

Tim W

Hi there, could I get a copy of the map of which you refer? Thanks in advance.

[Gerald Moore]

A higher resolution version of the photo posted above by Nick Yeomans (kindly provided by Jeremy Banning) confirmed that the wreck seen at the intersection of Tank Avenue and Horseshoe Lane was tank 593.