Jump to content
Free downloads from TNA ×
The Great War (1914-1918) Forum

Remembered Today:

Joseph Judd Territorial Force


lyndysnowbird

Recommended Posts

Here is another poser for you experts out there.

My maternal grandfather Joseph Judd was in the Territorial Force Northamptonshire Regiment.

From what my mother remembered he was a Sergeant Major but she was unable to give me any real background information. I don't even have his service number.

Where do I start??

I know he was born in 1896 in Rushden and the family moved to Wellingborough in 1913. She recalled that he went to the Drill Hall in High Street Wellingborough. When war broke out he would have been 18, how can I find out when and where he served.

Also his brother Alfred Judd who might have been with the Machine Gun Corps.

Thanks

Lynn

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi Lynn

sadly no-one specific jumps out of the MICs for Joseph, here are the 12 Joseph Judds' listed at the NA. 2 have the rank of Sgt the Fusilier being the most likely of the 2.

A likely candidate for his brother Alfred though.

Jon

Link to comment
Share on other sites

When the Northamptonshire Territorial battalion (the 4th battalion) was mobilised for active service it split into 3 battalions - the 1st/4th (1/4th) that went to Gallipoli, the 2nd/4th for Home Service only, and the 3rd/4th (later the 4th Reserve) Battalion for training. Men old enough to enlist (age 17+) but not serve overseas (19+) often trained with the 3rd Battalion at which point they went overseas, precedence being given to the 1st 4th Battalion.

Since the 1st/4th was in Egypt on garrison duty on the Suez Canal during 1916 following the Gallipoli campaign it had taken it's share of reinforcements in early 1916 to replace its Gallipoli losses but didn't require many more men until after the mid-1917 battles in Palestine. Thus the 3rd/4th provided drafts for the Regular battalions of the Northamptons and also to other Regiments. Hence, men could end up anywhere - even the King's Royal Rifle Corps.... :) :

Wellingborough AVL from 1918:

post-6536-1235937254.jpg

Steve.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hmmmm...

Looking at his Medal Index Card doesn't support the above theory, as he went to France with the KRRC in early May 1915, and was in fact a pre-war soldier....

post-6536-1235937918.jpg

Steve.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I believe that Alfred Judd enlisted/or transferred into the 8th (Reserve) Battalion of the Northamptonshire Regiment in October 1915 and went to France with a Draft on 8-2-1916. His Draft never joined a battalion of the Northamptons, instead joining 44th Machine Gun Company (attached to 44th Brigade of the 15th (Scottish) Division) which later merged into 15th Machine Gun Battalion (still part of 15th Division) in mid-1918.

post-6536-1235945927.jpg

Steve.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks Steve, you are a fountain of Knowledge, I have been looking for his medal card for ages, but hadn't thought to look in the absent voters list first. What was the KRRC and where do I look for info please. Sorry but I am at novice at WWI research. I have applied for a copy of Kitcheners Pioneers to be sent to my local library, should get it on Tuesday.

And you have confirmed what I had for Alfred. In the absent voters list were there any more brothers missing at I High Street, Wellingborough. Also they had cousins named Brayfield (I know of Frederick) Chace Rd, how many of those were missing from Wellingborough.

Sorry I am dumb - Kings Royal Rifle Corps !!!!

Alfred was a POW how can I find out where he went.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

There are no more Judd's at 1 High Street (don't forget minimum voting age was 21 - Joseph was probably only just eligible), but there is a "Bert Rimmington, 201003 Acting Corporal, 4th Northamptons" at No. 1 High Street.

The Brayfields:

post-6536-1235949367.jpg

Steve.

P.S. If you "Full Edit" your first post on the topic you can add King's Royal Rifle Corps to the topic heading and you should attract some experts on that Regiment.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ah, 2 guesses right in a row.... Getting scary! :)

From the Northampton Mercury, 3rd May 1918

post-6536-1235950557.jpg

I'll see if he is noted as a POW in any later issues.

Steve.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Bert Rimmington was their brother in law and all the Brayfields you found cousins.

Here's another couple for you if you don't mind..

Arthur Brayfield I think Northants Reg another POW

George Bird brother of Jesse, with the Suffolk Reg 3/9310 and Essex Regiment 25546 why two different Regiments and where were they.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

How old was Arthur?

There is 6161 Arthur Brayfield, born about 1884, enlisted age 18 in 1902, and served with 2nd battalion of the SUFFOLKS in August 1914 and taken POW on 26-8-1914 at the Battle of Le Cateau a POW at Wittenburg for almost the entire war. Son of William and Emily Brayfield of 47 Gold Street, Wellingborough. Brother of Walter. Per list in Northampton Independent of 8-12-1915 - "6161 Brayfield, Arthur, Pte., 2nd Suffolks, Wittenburg, Komp. 5., Barracks E1"

or a much younger Arthur Charles Brayfield born in 1900 in a Young Soldiers battalion of the Royal Sussex, served in the Army of Occupation on the Rhine in 1919.

Both have records on Ancestry.

Steve.

P.S. I see from the 1901 Census that he is probably the 1884 Arthur - he has a fair few "Pension" papers in WO364 on Ancestry, including service in India before the war (some of his record not suitable for Grandma.... :o ) - He's the one mentioned on the AVL.

His Medal index card shows his address as 55 Melton Road, Wellingborough in 1938 when he claimed the "Clasp and roses" for his 1914 Star medal which denoted that he had been "in the range of mobile enemy artillery"* during the 1914 Star qualifying date.

* Just a little bit! Le Cateau was a "last stand" type battle for the Suffolks and a couple of other battalions, as they were the rearguard in protecting the withdrawal of 2 Corps following the battle - which was a "give the Germans a bloody nose and withdraw" type battle.

Do you mean a different Arthur ? The only other Arthur Brayfield that is obvious in the records is a Sergeant in the Honourable Artillery Company from London who was killed in 1917.

P.P.S. Coincidentally Jesse Bird, Alfred Judd and Arthur Brayfield all served alongside my relatives from my signature (Walter Beeby, Herbert William Beeby & Walter Brooksbank, respectively, the latter taken POW alongside Arthur Brayfield)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

How old was Arthur?

There is 6161 Arthur Brayfield, born about 1884, enlisted age 18 in 1902, and served with 2nd battalion of the SUFFOLKS in August 1914 and taken POW on 26-8-1914 at the Battle of Le Cateau a POW at Wittenburg for almost the entire war. Son of William and Emily Brayfield of 47 Gold Street, Wellingborough. Brother of Walter. Per list in Northampton Independent of 8-12-1915 - "6161 Brayfield, Arthur, Pte., 2nd Suffolks, Wittenburg, Komp. 5., Barracks E1"

or a much younger Arthur Charles Brayfield born in 1900 in a Young Soldiers battalion of the Royal Sussex, served in the Army of Occupation on the Rhine in 1919.

Both have records on Ancestry.

Steve.

P.S. I see from the 1901 Census that he is probably the 1884 Arthur - he has a fair few "Pension" papers in WO364 on Ancestry, including service in India before the war (some of his record not suitable for Grandma.... :o ) - He's the one mentioned on the AVL.

His Medal index card shows his address as 55 Melton Road, Wellingborough in 1938 when he claimed the "Clasp and roses" for his 1914 Star medal which denoted that he had been "in the range of mobile enemy artillery"* during the 1914 Star qualifying date.

* Just a little bit! Le Cateau was a "last stand" type battle for the Suffolks and a couple of other battalions, as they were the rearguard in protecting the withdrawal of 2 Corps following the battle - which was a "give the Germans a bloody nose and withdraw" type battle.

Do you mean a different Arthur ? The only other Arthur Brayfield that is obvious in the records is a Sergeant in the Honourable Artillery Company from London who was killed in 1917.

P.P.S. Coincidentally Jesse Bird, Alfred Judd and Arthur Brayfield all served alongside my relatives from my signature (Walter Beeby, Herbert William Beeby & Walter Brooksbank, respectively, the latter taken POW alongside Arthur Brayfield)

Yes it was Arthur born 1884, he was sent to Wittenburg, what do you know about this camp if anything. I tried the red cross they were unable to find his records.

I've been reading some of the books about the Northamptonshires and the 12th Division (only just started that one) but its not sinking in very well. Its an age thing I think. lol

Sorry but whats AVL. William and Emily Brayfield were my gt grandparents, I never met them. I have found his service record on ancestry, and I see what you mean, not suitable for grandma indeed....

Looks like Joseph Judd was in the 8th service Bn, according to the time his Bn went to France from the long long trail site. Would that be about right. His medal card says that he was discharged early-possibly wounded, would that be about right. My mother maintained that he was an RSM , if so he must have joined as a as a territorial after the war.

thanks again,

Lynn

Link to comment
Share on other sites

AVL = Absent Voters List.

Apologies. Researchers suffer from Compulsive Abbrevations Disease.....

The 8th King Royal Rifle Corps went to France on the 20th May 1915 with the 9th Battalion I believe.

I think that Joseph was with one of the Regular battalions - 1st, 2nd, 3rd or 4th who would have already been in France by the time Joseph went overseas. Obviously he was later with the 4th so that seems likely, though not definite!

You can use the medal roll references to find out his first battalion in the medal roll ledgers at the National Archives at Kew.

If he served with the 4th Battalion throughout then he would have had a fairly long stint in Salonika where he would have been exposed to all many of nasty diseases which laid many soldiers low at some point or other. Malaria was rife for example, a disease that could definitely come back and bite you in later years.

If he did rejoin after the war then the Ministry of Defence may still hold his records.

Hooray! Not one abbrevation!

Steve.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If he was with the 4th, he was in the same regiment that his wifes brother was in, that was Harry (Henry). Your AVL said he was with the 4th Norfolks but his medal card is the northants. I would think that the AVL was a bad transcription from original records.

They also had a nephew in the same outfit but he was killed in Gallipoli in Dec 1915. Frederick W Brayfield 2189 1/4th Northants. What can you find out about his death. Service record says GSW abdomen 2/12/15. Died of Wounds 7/12/15 16 casualty clearing station, no. 2 post Anzac.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have this snippet:

Kettering Leader, 24-12-1915 - WELLINGBOROUGH LAD DANGEROUSLY WOUNDED. Pte. F. W. Brayfield, of A Company, 1/4th Northants. Regiment, whose home is at 71 Winstanley Road, Wellingborough, has been dangerously wounded whilst involved in grenade throwing at Gallipoli. Brayfield is only 18 years of age, and his father too is on active service in France {my note: probably 18619 Pte. Walter Brayfield}. A day or two ago young Brayfield sent home a couple of photographs that he picked up in Gallipoli. One of these was a young woman at a garden gate and was signed 'From Flo, Dec. 12th 1914'

My notes:

No. 2189 Frederick Walter Brayfield, Private.

- Enlisted, age "17 years", 4-11-1913.

- Embarked to Gallipoli aboard Hired TransportT. "Royal George" from Devonport, 29-7-1915.

- Entitled to 1914-15 Star/British War Medal/Victory Medal.

- Died of Wounds at No. 16 Cacsualty Clearing Station, No. 2 Post, Anzac, Pte., 1/4th Bn., age 17, 2-12-1915.

- Commemorated on HELLES MEMORIAL. (Grave presumably lost in later months)

- Son of Walter Brayfield, of 71, Winstanley Rd., Wellingborough, and the late Mary Elizabeth Brayfield.

- Born at Finedon.

- Enlisted at Wellingborough.

- A bootmaker with Messrs. Ludborough Brothers.

- Probably part of the old "E" Company based at the Drill Hall, Great Park St., Wellingborough under the command of Captain Albert Cecil Henson which formed half of the new "A" company on conversion to the 4 company battalion structure in 1914.

The battalion was in trenches at Hill 60 on Gallipoli between 24th and 27th November 1915 - a location where the British and Turkish trenches were very close and grenade duels were common. The battalion had been relieved from the front line on 27-11-1915 and spent the days between 28th November and 7th December 1915 in bivouac at SWB (South Wales Borderers) Valley. The camp at SWB Valley was shelled on the 28th, 29th and 30th of November and the 5th December, but would not likely have been in range of grenade throwers.

The dates you have quoted from his records are actually:

2-12-1915 (right side of Casualty Form) date of death

7-12-1915 (date of report) - from updating of the battalion records when the battalion was releived from their tour of duty on 7-12-1915

and I also have:

post-6536-1236111088.jpg

(From the Kettering Leader of 14-1-1916)

Steve.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Good spot with Harry Brayfield - he does seem to have been in the Northamptons!

If so his number dates to around about 1-2-1916 (the six digit numbers actually only came in in 1917 and superceded the old numbers - Harry's "old" number was almost certainly 5240, which would have been the actual number allocated him in February 1916), and he was probably part of a draft of men transferred from Regular battalions of the Northamptons who embarked to Egypt aboard the "Saturnia" on 2nd February 1916, joining the battalion for its extended tour of duty guarding the Suez Canal during the whole of 1916. In 1917 and 1918 the 1/4th Northamptons joined the advance into Palestine fighting at Gaza and near Jerusalem.

His 70515 number indicates that he rejoined the Northamptons in 1919.

Steve.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Again I thank you,

Photgraphs are always great to get even of such poor quality as newspaper cuttings. I only have 3 photos of my family old soldiers in uniform and that is 2 of my grandfather Jesse Bird and 1 of Alfred Judd both with Northants Regiments

I am indebted to you for all of this hard work you are doing on my behalf. How and where have you managed to get so much information on Northants soldiers, it must have taken years of research. Do you have war diaries by any chance?

Regards Lynn

ps. Unless I'm mistaken, I dont think that his father was serving at the same time, there were 2 Walter Brayfields in the same family. Walter S Brayfield born 1890 was the son of William Brayfield. And Walter Henry born 1879, son of George Brayfield. (William Brayfield and Walter Henry Brayfield were brothers). I wish families wouldn't do this it makes it very difficult for us researchers years later. lol so the Walter that you found is probably the cousin of Frederick above.

Lynn

PPS:

I Didn't read the article very well did I? I'll try to find him before I open my mouth again!!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

18619 Walter Brayfield is from the same address shown in the cutting, so he is probably Frederick Walter's father in my mind...

Winstanley Road's entry from the AVL:

post-6536-1236192308.jpg

He was possibly transferred to one of the "more useful in civilian life" reserve statuses, perhaps due to his age:

Quote:

New types of reserve created during the war

Class W Reserve and its Territorial Force equivalent Class W(T) were introduced in June 16 by Army Order 203/16. They were ‘for all those soldiers whose services are deemed to be more valuable to the country in civil rather than military employment’. Men in these classes were to receive no emoluments from army funds and were not to wear uniform. They were liable at any time to be recalled to the colours. From the time a man was transferred to Class W, until being recalled to the Colours, he was not subject to military discipline.

Class T Reserve was introduced in October 16 by Army Order 355 of 1916. There was no Territorial equivalent. Class T consisted of men in about 30 specific skilled trades (almost all industrial/munitions related) who would otherwise have been transferred to Class W. Terms and conditions were as for Class W.

Class P Reserve and Class P(T) were introduced by the same Army Order 355/16. These classes consisted of men

- ‘whose services are deemed to be temporarily of more value to the country in civil life rather than in the Army’

- and who were not lower than medical grade C iii

- and as a result of having served in the Army or TF would, if discharged, be eligible for a pension on the grounds of disability or length of service.

Men in Classes P and P(T) were, for the purposes of pay, allowances, gratuity and pension, treated as if they been discharged on the date of their transfer to Class P or P(T); that is. they did receive money from the Army. Other terms and conditions were as for Class W.

Authorisation was given in early December 1918 for all classes of the P and W Reserves (with the exception of conscientious objectors in the latter case) to be discharged forthwith, irrespective of their original terms of engagement.

http://www.1914-1918.net/reserve.htm

Steve.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This is 1890 Walter Brayfield - a downloadable service record (£3.50 from the National Archives)

Description Name Brayfield, Walter

Register Number: 16780

Division: Royal Marine Light Infantry: Chatham Division

When Enlisted/Date of Enlistment: 30 August 1910

Date 01 June 1890 {of birth}

Catalogue reference ADM 159/127

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/documen...p;resultcount=1

Steve.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Your bid to confuse me is threatening to succeed, Lynn - so I've put together a basic tree with who I think is who (Brayfields + Joseph Judd):

BrayfieldTreeSmall.jpg

The link shoud reach a large (and readable image!)

http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c293/ste...ldTreeLarge.jpg

And to add: Arthur, Walter and Harry's uncle Frederick served in the artillery from 1892 to 1916 when he was discharged and then went back into the Army in the Army Service Corps Remounts Department (horse trainiers) from 1917 to 1919. He has three records on Ancestry, which you may well have already seen.

Steve

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks Steve

They are a confusing family arn't they. Yes I knew about uncle Frederick from Higham Ferrers but wasn't aware of him re-enlisting. I havn't seen that anywhere. But I do have his service records from ancestry.

I will also download Walters Royal Marine record, it will be interesting.

I have looked over your family tree and thats about right. George Morris married Mary Ann Cowley the second time, and 13 kids can you believe that!! He outlived both wives and ended up living with his daughter Emily in Finedon. He died in 1913 age 73.

Lynn

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Confusing? You should see mine! :D

Steve.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Confusing? You should see mine! :D

Steve.

You've not seen the Bird side, there are 5 George Edward Birds in 3 generations, thats confusing!! <_<

Lynn

While you're there I have a couple more chaps on my husband side if you can help.

Pte Reginald Morris, 1st Bn Northamptons 17619 & 8th Gloucestershire, died 25th July 1916 remembered Mericourt-L'Abbe communal Cemetary Extension. Wher and what was he doing at time of death.

Pte 3/10161 Thomas Craven 1st Bn Northamptonshire, died 9 May 1915 and remembered at Le Touret Memorial. It think he went over the top at Battle of aubers Ridge.

John Craven 7th Bn Northamptons 20419 died 22 Feb 1916, Lijssenthoek Military Cemetary

12371 Tom Cooke L/cpl 5th Bn Northamptons died 22 March 1916 Loos Memorial.

Any help here appreciated

Lynn

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Have you seen this website that features the Cravens and Reginald Morris ?

http://www.stanwickwarmemorial.co.uk/63.html

Thomas Craven had previously been wounded (as reported in a casualty list in the Times of 1st March 1915), but I can't narrow down a date very much.

Steve.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Although there is a good article on John Craven's death in the Rushden Echo of 24th March 1916, I have not got a direct photo of it for some bizarre reason - however here is what I have:

post-6536-1236289564.jpg

The Stanwick website extract transcibes the majority of the article.

I notice a couple of pages before is an article of Pte. Reginald Bird and Pte. H. Bird of 17 Westfield Street, Higham Ferrers and their (rather gruesome) "adventures" on Gallipoli with a couple of photos. There is also another article in the Rushden Echo of 12-11-1915 on their woundings.

I think these will be:

One is Horace Reginald Bird - numbers 2114 & 200302, killed in action 19-4-1917 at the 2nd battle of Gaza ("Son of Mr. and Mrs. H. Bird, of 17, Westfields St., Higham Ferrers; husband of Lucy Jane Bird, of 17, Westfields St., Higham Perrers, Northants." per CWGC website). He has a Service Record on Ancestry.

Are these "your" Birds?

Higham Ferrers AVL has:

Henry Joseph Bird 406408 2nd A/M, Royal Air Force; Horace Reginald Bird 200302 4th Northamptons (still Missing at this point, even in 1918), at 17 Westfield St.

At No. 4 of the same road are: George Bird, No. 15681 4th Northamptons, and Edward Bird No. 419636 Sgt., Labour Co.

Steve.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Oops, straying off topic.... again....

Back to the ones you asked for.

12371 Tom Cooke - Rushen Echo, 31-3-1916

post-6536-1236291943.jpg

Complete with another "Bird" reference!

and picture....

post-6536-1236292120.jpg

Steve.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...