William and Edward Kneen, Ptes ASC

[manxman]

While my main focus is my Great Grandfather I have been also looking for info. on his three brothers (1 RNR, the other 2 believed to be ASC).

A researcher has checked PRO for me for the two in the Army without trace of the records for either. They are

1) William Kneen, b. 17/08/1895 (a postman in civilian life)

2) Edward Kneen, b. 05/08/1894 (a baker in civilian life)

both from Peel, Isle of Man and both survived the war.

The researcher was able to find MICs which I am happy match the two brothers.

1) WILLIAM;

A local paper dated 17/04/15 lists his enlistment in the motor transport section of the ASC It further reports that he was home on leave from France 05/1/16 (with leave being granted so quickly I suspect he may have been taken ill or wounded). There are two William Kneens in the ASC on MICs but only one qualifies for the 14/15 star (date of entry to theatre 18/07/15) so I am confident this is my relative's card.

The corps number is M2/080733. Comments on the card show that he was discharged 02/07/19.

2) EDWARD;

Family stories suggest that he continued his trade (baker) whilst in the Army.

There are two MICs in this name at PRO. One is for a ASC Pte, the other is for a Manchester Regiment Pte (enough of whose personal record survives to show that it is not the man I am interested in). Therefore by elimination I am happy that the ASC MIC refers to my relative. This would seem to fit with him still baking whilst in the Army.

The Corps number for this man is SI/4900 or possibly S1/4900 (from MIC). It shows that he first entered France 29/7/15 (and qualifies for the 14/15 star).

I hold a postcard sent by my Great Grandfather, Pte. 359315 Robert Henry Kneen dated 29/08/17 from France to family at home which says that he met his brother Eddie the previous day. Robert Henry Kneen joined his battalion, 1/10th King's Liverpool (Liverpool Scottish) in August 1917. The Battalion war diary shows the battalion being away from the line, detraining at Audruicq and being billeted at Zouafques(06/08/17) and then training for the rest of the month.

Help please.

Can anyone tell me the following

1) what do the prefixes to the ASC numbers signify?

2) Do the numbers in anyway signify which units the two ASC men were attached to?

3) Am I correct in believing that Army bakers were ASC men?

4) Does Edward being at or near Zouefques on the 28/08/17 help to ID his unit?

5) Are the dates for arrival in France in anyway significant?

Many thanks

[Chris_Baker]

1) what do the prefixes to the ASC numbers signify?

M2 = Mechanical Transport

S1 (not SI) = Supply for 1st New Army

2) Do the numbers in anyway signify which units the two ASC men were attached to?

No

3) Am I correct in believing that Army bakers were ASC men?

Yes

5) Are the dates for arrival in France in anyway significant?

In July 1915, the 17th (Northern), 19th (Western) and 20th (Light) Divisions moved to France. That might help pin down the ASC units a bit. The two men did not necessarily move with a unit, though.

[Guest Ian Bowbrick]

Manx,

I have in the past researched a couple of brothers who were bakers in the ASC;

G L Kendall & A G Kendall, their numbers were both prefixed S4 and both served with the 8th Field Bakery.

Ian

[manxman]

thanks for all replies on this

[Kate Wills]

A further question on ASC prefixes. Can anyone explain M; R4; and S4 in this list of ASC men bearing the name Breslin?

Private M/296399 John W

R4/068292 Edward

S4/060093 John

M/205101 Sgt Charles

Thanks