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What unit and car is this?


Emperorbaz
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I have just found this rather interesting photo and wondered if anyone can place it. It says on the back it is the Far East in 1916 and the car looks like a Model T perhaps, with a vickers machine gun mounted on it? The insignia on one of the helmets looks a bit like a light infantry bugle with either SFMB or SPMB

Any help would be appreciated

post-35475-1235835648.jpg

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Definitely not a Model T. Bonnet and radiator match a Napier, I wouldn't say Daimler because the radiator top looks different (not sure how i'd describe it, ridged?)

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May I suggest 'fluted' for the Daimler rad, RobL? Reckon your spot on with Napier.

Phil.

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May I suggest 'fluted' for the Daimler rad, RobL? Reckon your spot on with Napier.

Phil.

Given that the radiator isn't visible in the photo (at least not on my screen) could you explain?

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I reckon there is enough of the top of the radiator visable in order to discount the Daimler as the Scalloping effect with the resultant undulations would just about be visable. Oh, I wish I'd the ability to send Pictures[ New Laptop-- not learnt yet]. I have assumed that Daimler rads had this style in 1916 by agreeing with RobL, but tried to find a better word than ridged! Scuttle looks Napier too.

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The rifle in the photo appears to be a "long" Lee Enfield with a pattern 1888 bayonet - so if 1916 is correct the men are most likely to be Territorials .................... I would think.

regards - Tom

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I think there is suffient bonnet and radiator in view to discount a Napier.

The bonnet is very short, so probably a 4 cylinder. The only 4 cyl made in that era by Napier was a 15HP, and production of motor car engines gave way to aircraft engines during the war. Although custom bodys were buillt, it does not look like a 15HP to me. Possible exception of the photo at Scram. (Anyone have access)

The radiators and bonnets on most all Napiers, prior to 1920 and excluding the Gordon Bennet specials, were not rounded at the vertical turn, being quite sharp allowing for symetry with the hinged bonnets.

That windscreen looks like an early high screen, which does not look right for the body, any ones guess.

Alan

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Offiers rank on shoulder does not tie in with 1916. Singapore port maritime service/board may be a candidate, can't remember those tall trees though.

Alan

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I have just found this rather interesting photo and wondered if anyone can place it. It says on the back it is the Far East in 1916 and the car looks like a Model T perhaps, with a vickers machine gun mounted on it? The insignia on one of the helmets looks a bit like a light infantry bugle with either SFMB or SPMB

Definately a Vickers, probably a pre-1916 made gun given it has the flat muzzle, and doesn't have the armoured muzzle cone in place.

The rifle in the photo appears to be a "long" Lee Enfield with a pattern 1888 bayonet - so if 1916 is correct the men are most likely to be Territorials .................... I would think.

regards - Tom

I'm pretty certain it's a standard SMLE, but the bayonet seems to be the shorter type introduced in 1903, which was later replaced by the more familiar longer 1907 pattern, see:

http://www.ima-usa.com/popup_image.php/pID...6371173b479d778

Offiers rank on shoulder does not tie in with 1916.

[/quote)

Virtually all Officers wore shoulder rank on tropical kit througout the war, on Service Dress some were even wearing it at the start of the war (mostly Guards regiments), although it was becoming more popular by the end of the war.

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Guest Plynkes

Could the last letter possibly be an 'R' do you think? That would perhaps give you SPMR. Could be Southern Provinces Mounted Rifles (an Indian Army unit), which had a Light Infantry Bugle as its badge.

Not far east obviously, just a stab in the dark.

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Could the last letter possibly be an 'R' do you think? That would perhaps give you SPMR. Could be Southern Provinces Mounted Rifles (an Indian Army unit), which had a Light Infantry Bugle as its badge.

Not far east obviously, just a stab in the dark.

It looks like Southern Provinces Mounted Rifles to me also. I don't have an illustration of their cap badge which was a bugle, but here is their button. They were formed on 12th February 1904.

David.

post-21239-1235902541.jpg

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I reckon there is enough of the top of the radiator visable in order to discount the Daimler as the Scalloping effect with the resultant undulations would just about be visable. Oh, I wish I'd the ability to send Pictures[ New Laptop-- not learnt yet]. I have assumed that Daimler rads had this style in 1916 by agreeing with RobL, but tried to find a better word than ridged! Scuttle looks Napier too.

There is a photo of a WW1 Daimler TR 20hp staff car in one of the Olyslager directories that has no scalloping

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The rifle in the photo appears to be a "long" Lee Enfield with a pattern 1888 bayonet - so if 1916 is correct the men are most likely to be Territorials .................... I would think.

regards - Tom

Looks to be an SMLE to me with the short pattern bayonet.

David

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As far as I can discover Singapore and Malaya were fairly quiet in WW1 (so less reason for arming motor vehicles) , there was some daicotery in Burma and, as always, troubles with the tribal areas of the NWF. Possibly an Indian Army unit sent to Burma would fit the Far East bill?

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The Southern Provinces Mounted Rifles were part of the Indian Volunteer Force, so were formed of Europeans or mixed race residents. The Colonel in Chief was the Governor of Madras, so I'd assume that's where they were from.

Although units of the IVF were utilised to replace Regular troops in some stations, the terms of their enlistment meant they couldn't be used anywhere except their own recruitment area. Standards of training were extremely variable, and much of the equipment was privately provided, so I'm guessing the car might belong to a member of the regiment, with the machine gun bolted on.

In 1917 the Indian Defence Force Act was passed, which brought the volunteers into the Indian Defence Force, with compulsory service for all European British subjects between 18 and 41, and also allowed certain units to accept as volunteers certain classes of British Indian subjects.

Not sure if it helps at all with identification, but it fills in a bit of background.

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As far as I can discover Singapore and Malaya were fairly quiet in WW1 (so less reason for arming motor vehicles)

Singapore and Malay were very quiet in WW2 too, before being over run. Even the Boy scouts train to "Be Prepared."

Yes Andrew you are quite right I agree. I thought pretty soon after I had typed that statement that it was badly flawed, I obviously did not seperate SD and Tropical dress.

The Southern Provinces Mounted Rifles, sounds about right, and fits in nicely with the bandolier.

Alan

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