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This bothers me


phil andrade
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Andrade, WA, Private, London Regiment, Royal Fusiliers, Died of wounds 15th March 1915.

Buried in Cabaret Rouge Cemetery.

I've seen his grave, and I've been to Kew, but his story is elusive. He's my namesake, and I believe he might have been grandpa's cousin. All I got from Kew is that he arrived in France on January 6th 1915.

This was my first visit to TNA, and I was preoccupied with trying to find out about Eric Smart ( "My Dear Little Boy"), so I haven't done justice to the memory of someone who might be a family member. He was an East Ender, born in Bromley-by- Bow and living in Poplar. He was Jewish, which might account for my failure to have learnt more about him. My grandfather renounced Judaism when he married my grandmother, a blond blue eyed Christian girl who insisted that all semitic traits be eradicated from family memory - a testimony to how the war brought people together who otherwise would not have met. Apparently, William Andrade is commemorated in the Honour Book of British Jewry ( is that what it's called?). I think he was nineteen when he died, and I reckoned that he was a casualty of Neuve Chapelle, judging by the date of death. For some absurd reason his place of death is stated as Aldershot in one of the records I saw at Kew. Having seen his grave in France I am astonished at the error.

Am I right in assuming that he was a territorial? Any advice as to how to learn more about him?

Phil.

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NO advice - but I want to know more. Sounds like a good mystery.

Des

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For some absurd reason his place of death is stated as Aldershot in one of the records I saw at Kew. Having seen his grave in France I am astonished at the error.

This is a well documented error by Ancestory.com when it has scanned the Soldiers Died in the Great War records, after countless thousands of records. The original paper copies and the Naval & Military Press CD will say France.

Still - that's Ancestry.com for you.

John

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Quite a few people who came to the UK in the 19th and early 20th century underwent quite dramatic changes (my mother's mother's mother's mother came to Ireland from somewhere in the Ukraine as a result of the Russian pograms but my grandmother was a stalwart member of the Church of Ireland as were all her brothers and sisters. Quite when the conversion occured is a family mystery) so it might not have been a result purely of WW1 that your grandfather and grandmother came together. I hope you learn more about William

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Phil, when you sayy ou looked at the records at TNA did you by any chance look at Soldiers Died on Ancestry? It sounds to me like you did, as all Ancestry records of SDGW have the wrong theatre of death.

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PJA

6 January 1915 ties in with the 1/4 (City of London)Battalion (Royal Fusiliers) arriving in Marseilles from Malta. That would explain this as the first date into a War Theatre because Malta wasn't one. On 6 February 1915 this Bn became part of Ferozepore Brigade of the 3rd (Lahore) Division,which fought at Neuve Chappelle along with a few more of the Indian units.

Have you seen the page in the Long Long Trail for this Battle?

http://www.1914-1918.net/bat9.htm

Have you also seen the CWGC notes concerning the Cabaret-Rouge British Cemetery,where it seems possible that your subject may have been re-buried there from elsewhere on the battlefields? The dates suggest this is possible,though equally it is possible that the Germans buried him there. The CWGC can help with this matter if you think it worthwhile pursuing.

If you are really keen to find out as much as possible you can find the Bn War Diary at Kew for the short few weeks that he was in Theatre,it would be in WO95/3923 which runs from Jan to Oct 1915.

Sotonmate

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Private William Alfred Andrade, Private, 1685, 4th London (Royal Fus., born in Poplar, resided in Bromley-by-Bow and enlisted at Shaftesbury Street.

He died of wounds on 15.3.15 in France and Flanders.

Source....SDGW

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PJA

An interesting story--with all the makings of a first-class novel. Here are some additional details:

William Alfred Andrade, birth registered at Poplar during January-March, 1896 (births were registered quarterly).

His age was 19 when he was killed in action.

William - Andrade, born about 1870, Kingsland, London; living at the Army Service Corps Barracks at

Woolwich Arsenal, London, in 1891. The 1891 Census for England lists William's father's name as

Thomas (listed first name only).

William - Andrade, marriage registered during April-June, 1895, at Mile End Old Town, London

William - Andrade, born about 1870; death registered during January-March, 1920, at Poplar.

Suggestion: given the marriage and birthdate, William Andrade may be William Alfred Andrade's father;

if so, you can trace the family back further by following-up Thomas Andrade.

Regards Trelawney

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WA Andrade... (from the British Jewry Book of Honour)...

post-357-1235518532.jpg

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There is a William A Andrade listed in the GRO REGIMENTAL BIRTH INDICES for 1896 along with one for a Annie E B Andrade in 1901.

There is no place of birth specified (left blank), but the regiment of the father is A.S.C., C+T (this is the same for both entrys)

Both entrys are in volume 631, on page 220

Grant

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This is the family of the William who married in 1895 and William Alfred born in 1896:

1901 census

40 Augusta St, Poplar (surname indexed as ANDREWS on Ancestry, but manuscript reads ANDRAED)

ANDRAED William, Head, 31, General Labourer, born Stepney

ANDRAED Esther, Wife, 31, born Poplar

ANDRAED William, Son, 5, born Poplar

and in the same house, Esther's family:

WORKMAN Hannah, Head, Widow, 65, born Limehouse

WORKMAN Emily, Dau, 29, born Poplar

WORKMAN George, Son, 23, Stamp Gummer, born Poplar

BRIDGES Fred, Boarder, 21, Book Binder/Finisher, born Poplar

Adrian

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William ANDRADE Snr's ASC records are on Ancestry.

Enlisted at Chelsea 17/7/1889, number 8857, occupation Carman. Address at the time 34 Castle Rd, Southsea. Wife Esther. Religious denomination Wesleyan.

Deserted 12/8/1890 and in prison until 9/9/1890 when returned ASC Reserve.

Recalled to Army Service 15/1/1900.

Discharged 18/8/1902.

Reattested 22/9/1902 and Discharged 21/9/1906.

Next of Kin:

Mother: Annie ANDRADE, 23 Haberdasher St, East Road,

Aunt: Ms ?BUTTERSTAND, address not known

Wife: Ethel [sic] WAKMAN [sic], St Thomas Ch., Stepney, married 13/4/1896

Children: William Alfred born 23/1/1896, Annie Edith ?Bretell born 26/5/1901

Adrian

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Now, I don't know if this is the same William ANDRADE (Snr), but there's also a pension record for William David ANDRADE, former occupation Park Keeper, who served in the 13th Bn Bedfordshire Regt 1913-19 in the UK and Malta, who is the same age (born 1869) and comes from Poplar. He died in Poplar on 26/1/20 age 50. Next of Kin: Wife [name not given!], 45 Oban St, Poplar. Pension granted for "Wife + 1" [child. Annie perhaps, as W.A. was dead?]

His medical form describes asthma/dyspnoeia and hernia caused and aggravated by service as grounds for pension, but doesn't mention cause of death. If his death was due to asthma and/or hernia, then he should be commemorated by CWGC, but isn't.

Adrian

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Many, many thanks to all of you for posting your comments, suggestions and leads regarding the fate of William Andrade. The obscurity of his life, its poverty and brevity, make it all the more important that some justice be done to his memory....and I, for one, have been deeply moved by the way in which you have helped me.

Phil.

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as all Ancestry records of SDGW have the wrong theatre of death.

Worse, in my opinion, is that place of enlistment and residence are the wrong way round as it could be taken at face value whereas "Theatre of War" "Aldershot" is clearly incorrect.

Mike S

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I have to admit, I shivered a bit when I read the start of this thread.

My Great Uncle died in France and when I was searching for information on him I too came across his SDGW entry on Ancestry giving Aldershot as the Theatre of Death. Now, Uncle Bob was stationed at Aldershot at one point but the 2nd Battalion, Royal Irish Rifles then moved to Dover and were in Tidworth (expecting to go to Malta) when they were sent to France.

Now I can sort of see that there's a very tenuous Aldershot connection in my Uncle's case but is there a similar connection with Private Andrade? Was he ever stationed at Aldershot? Or is it just a random place name that crept into the records?

Incidently, the thing that made me shiver was that place - Neuve Chapelle. My uncle was killed there as well but on 27th October the previous year.

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I have to admit, I shivered a bit when I read the start of this thread.

My Great Uncle died in France and when I was searching for information on him I too came across his SDGW entry on Ancestry giving Aldershot as the Theatre of Death. Now, Uncle Bob was stationed at Aldershot at one point but the 2nd Battalion, Royal Irish Rifles then moved to Dover and were in Tidworth (expecting to go to Malta) when they were sent to France.

Now I can sort of see that there's a very tenuous Aldershot connection in my Uncle's case but is there a similar connection with Private Andrade? Was he ever stationed at Aldershot? Or is it just a random place name that crept into the records?

Incidently, the thing that made me shiver was that place - Neuve Chapelle. My uncle was killed there as well but on 27th October the previous year.

Aldershot in the Ancestry version of the SGDW records is an error and can be completely ignored.

This has been well established by the Pals here on the Forum, and I believe we've also taken some pains to alert Ancestry to this howler.

However it still remains <_<

Cheers,

Mark

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Am I right in assuming that he was a territorial?

Yes, you are. Here's some details from a recommended site:

1/4th (City of London) Battalion of the London Regiment (Royal Fusiliers)

August 1914 : at Shaftesbury Street in City Road. Part of 1st London Brigade, 1st London Division. Moved on mobilisation to guarding the Basingstoke-Waterloo railway.

4 September 1914 : sailed with Brigade from Southampton to Malta, arriving Valetta 14 September.

2 January 1915 : left Malta, arrived at Marseilles on 6 January.

10 February 1915 : joined the Ferozepore Brigade in 3rd (Lahore) Division.

http://www.1914-1918.net/london.htm

Unfortunately there is yet another glitch with the UK National Archives web site, so I can't locate the war diary.

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It's back again:

WO 95/3923 1/4 Battalion London Regiment (City of London) 1915 Jan. - Oct.

If the documents online search is correct, it isn't online yet.

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