Victor Silvester

[charlesmessenger]

Can anyone fill in any gaps in Victor Silvester’s (the famous dance band leader) service record? What exists of his papers under WO 363 merely show that he attested at Stirling Castle on 4/9/16, claiming his age to be 20 years and seven months and to have had 16 months previous service in the London Regiment. He joined the Argylls and then was discharged on 12/9/16 as being under 17 years old. He was actually born in Feb 1900 and it would seem that his parents probably claimed him.

I know from the records of the Inns of Court and Artists’ Rifles that he joined the former at Berkhamsted on 2/1/18 and became a LCpl before being posted to No 6 OC Bn on 7/6/18. He then transferred to the Artists’ Rifles on 26/9/18 and is listed by them with no 769338, with no indication that he served abroad or that he was commissioned.

According to his autobiography, My Dancing Years, he enlisted in the London Scottish in Nov 1914, claiming to be 18 3/4, but, after failing to get to France, joined the 3rd Argylls and after seven months with them he did get to France. He served six months at the front before his true age was discovered and he was sent to Etaples, where he managed to enrol in the British Red Cross Ambulance serving in Italy under the historian G M Trevelyan. He was awarded an Italian decoration and was wounded, like Ernest Hemingway, and got back to Britain before the end of 1917. He claims he joined the Inns of Court in April 1918 and was eventually commissioned just after the end of the war. He then went to Sandhurst, but left after deciding on a music career.

Nothing official appears to remain of his service with the London Scottish and there is no proof that he actually went to France, although his attestation papers of Sep 1916 do state that he had scars on his neck and buttock.

Any clues or suggestions would be very welcome.

Charles M

[Terry Carter]

Hi Charles,

I seem to recall that Victor Sylvester was also quoted in the book the Monacled Mutineer. He witnessed the goings on at Etaples. (allegedly)

Terry

[Kate Wills]

Back in the dim and distant past, I watched an interview with Victor Silvester on the old BBC Nationwide programme. It may have been around the time 'The Monocled Mutineer' was broadcast, because the interview centred on his wartime experiences, mentioning his under-age enlistment at 14, and his own time at the Bull Ring in Etaples, where, he said, there was no need for the brutalities that were ordered, as most of the soldiers there were hardened warriors by then.

He also had something to say about SADs, and claimed to have seen paperwork relating to a military execution while on duty in an orderly room at Etaples. I read subsequently that he claimed the forms he saw showed the executed soldier was a member of the 7th Ox & Bucks. This made me sit up and listen, as my grandfather served with them. However, no 7th Ox & Bucks was shot at dawn, or any other time during WW1 (though I don't know if any were tried and acquitted) and anyway, apart from a short time in the Somme sector in autumn 1915, 7th Ox&B spent their entire war in Salonika, which is where they were when Silvester was shuffling papers in Etaples.

Silvester's wartime experiences undoubtedly left a profound impression that remained with him throughout his lifetime; but memories do fade and mingle. Dare I say that the murky subject of Shot at Dawn is not helped by memories which are proven to be at variance with contemporaneously documented facts.

[padrenick]

Victor Sylvester died in 1978 so I don't think he had any dealings with the making of the The Monocled Mutineer which was broadcast in the 80s

[David Filsell]

I seem to recall that he claimed to have attended or participate in a firing squad and that the the claim was disproved. However I cannot provide any sources.

[Uptodat]

 

I have only recently read about Victor Silvester's "confession" / claim of involvement in varying numbers of firing squads at Etaples. I took it at face value and repeated it, then to be alerted to the doubts about the account (by Kate Wills).  After an on line trawl through many and varied, full and incomplete quoted accounts and reports I am no nearer to knowing if the claims have categorically been demolished as fantasy or if there was a possibility of some involvement on his part, whether full participation, hearsay or mere sight of a list of those to be executed. 

 

Most versions quoted include the detailed description of a botched execution of the prisoner trying to escape his bonds to a chair, which was portrayed in exactly the way described, in the 1986 TV series The Monocled Mutineer. I remember the TV series and the controversy about alleged BBC bias, (questions in the House etc), "historical inaccuracies" / dramatic licence or about Percy Toplis' part - if any - in the Etaples mutiny / disturbances. Did technical adviser: Julian Putkowski, who later wrote "Shot at Dawn", leave the production due to such concerns?

 

I don't remember the TV interview (or contemporaneous reports of it) in 1978, the year he died, which was  8 years before "The Monocled Mutineer" TV series, but probably concurrent with the gestation of Allison & Fairley's book of that name. I don't suppose the interview tape or transcript is available anywhere now? There is also mention of a radio interview that year involving William Allison in which Silvester apparently held back from airing the horrific details of a SAD, but told Allison for publication after his death.

 

I note that Kate Wills does recall the Nationwide TV interview of Silvester and mention of a SAD of a 7th Ox & Bucks soldier which does not accord with Regimental history. Another version of the botched execution account has the prisoner as an Argyll - which does not fit with records either.

 

I haven't read the 1958 autobiography: Dancing is my Life, The Monocled Mutineer, Shot at Dawn, Execution at Dawn by David Johnson, nor Blindfold and Alone by Corns and Hughes-Wilson. I gather the latter casts a doubtful eye on Silvester's story, because of a lack of corroboration from his service record. 

 

Journalist and author and Victor's grandson Christopher Silvester defends the account as eye witness evidence which he encouraged his grandfather to disclose and document from his own war papers, diaries and other memorabilia in 1978. How was the war covered in the autobiography when presumably the same documents and diaries were available?  Did it differ from the later account? (I saw a suggestion that elements were omitted to avoid jeopardising his musical career and popularity). Have the original documents been scrutinised? Has Victor Silvester's account of his movements in the war been independently corroborated? 

 

The answers to such questions may assist in assessing to what extent, if any, the SAD claims are based in reality and personal involvement. Over sixty years after the events  memories, especially if related to traumatic events at a young age, could be faulty, contaminated by later knowledge, or even completely false, though honestly held.

 

Silvester's experience as an under-age recruit is notable but  the SAD account and the confusion about it interests me and if all the evidence for against its veracity has been assembled somewhere, I would appreciate being directed to it. Perhaps the revelation by Christopher Silvester about his grandfather dispatching enemy wounded with a grenade has also been examined elsewhere? Maybe someone has already contacted Christopher Silvester to cover this ground?

 

[charlesmessenger]

Looking back at my original posting, I have since established from his Medal Index Card that he did not serve in France. He did, however, serve with the Red Cross and St John's Ambulance in Italy from 1 October 1916 until the end of 1917. Thus, the only times he was in France were likely to have been in transit to and from Italy. The RMA Sandhurst records do not record his name as having been a Gentleman Cadet  there. 

 

Charles M

[ForeignGong]

Hi

He was awarded an Italian Bronze Medal for Military Valour (Al Valore Militare) while serving with the BRCS under the following

 

File: FO 372/1318 Treaty: Orders (Decorations) Italy  1919

 

Peter