HERITAGE PLUS Posted 11 February , 2003 Share Posted 11 February , 2003 I have a copy of the Toc H brochure celebrating the organisation's 21st birthday. Each Branch holds a 'Lamp of Maintenance' and each branch of the ladies section (The League of Women Helpers) holds a 'Lamp of the Magnifcat'. These are used in Toc H ceremonies. Each Lamp has a specific memorial dedication. The brochure lists the branches together with details of the lamp dedications. Sample entries: TAUNTON - 'THE MARTIN LAMP': In memory of F.A.S. Martin, Pte., 2/1 Wessex,F.A., RAMC Near Ypres 3.6.17 SOUTH SHIELDS - 'ARTHUR'S LAMP': In memory of Arthur Irwin Bridge, Pte.,6th Northumberland Fusiliers. Reported missing 26.4.15 (given by his father) MOOSE JAW, Saskatchewan - 'THE WILLIAM ROBERT GREEN LAMP': In memory of William Robert Green, Major, 44th Canadian Infantry. La Coulette 3.6.1917 Happy to look up names/locations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kate Wills Posted 11 February , 2003 Share Posted 11 February , 2003 Anything for Northampton, please? Something occurs to me. Any of these lamps still in existance should be registered as war memorials with the National Inventory (NIWM) held at the Imperial War Museum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry_Reeves Posted 11 February , 2003 Share Posted 11 February , 2003 There isa Toc H Lamp in "St Mary the Virgin" in Banbury. As a matter of interest, one of the members of the Heart of England branch of the WFA, Sid Stowe, now well into his eighties, was a member of Toc H and remembers meeting Tubby Clayton. Sid is a branch stalwart and still accompanies us on our battlefield tours each spring. Terry Reeves Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HERITAGE PLUS Posted 12 February , 2003 Author Share Posted 12 February , 2003 Kate You raise a good point. I will send a list of the branches/lamps to the project. The following entries for Northamptonshire are listed: NORTHAMPTON - 'BASIL'S LAMP' - In memory of Henry Basil Shaw, Pte., 17th. Sherwood Foresters, Somme 3.9.16 (given by Miss Sowton). First lit 15 December 1922 at Guildhall, London, by King Edward VIII, Patron Toc H, when Prince of Wales. One wonders if Miss Sowton was the 'sweetheart left behind'. WELLINGBOROUGH - 'THE GENT LAMP' - in memory of Frank Ernest Gent, Lt., 9th West Yorkshire Regt, Gallipoli, 9.8.15 (given by his family) First lit 27 September 1932 at Birmingham Town Hall, by King Edward VIII, Patron Toc H, when Prince of Wales. KETTERING - 'THE CYTRINGAN LAMP' - in memory of the Elder Bretheren of Kettering (given by their friends) First lit 27 June 1936 at Crystal Palace, by HRH The Duke of Kent. Terry Banbury is not listed so I presume that the lamp is from a Branch formed at a later date to my brochure, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt York Posted 12 February , 2003 Share Posted 12 February , 2003 Is there any listing for Liverpool? Ronnie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HERITAGE PLUS Posted 12 February , 2003 Author Share Posted 12 February , 2003 LIVERPOOL - 'THE MARINER'S LAMP' - In memory of all seamen form Liverpool who lost their lives in the Great War (given by the branch) First lit 15 December 1922 at Guildhall, London, by King Edward VIII, Patron Toc H, when Prince of Wales BIRKENHEAD - 'THE ALEXANDER JOHNSON LAMP' - In memory of Alexander F.Johnson, 2nd.Lt., 11th London Regt., Bois de Leuze 10.9.16 (given by his father). First lit 7 December 1929 at The Royal Albert Hall, London, by King Edward VIII, Patron Toc H, when Prince of Wales Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt York Posted 12 February , 2003 Share Posted 12 February , 2003 Many thanks for the Merseyside entries. Cheers, Ronnie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kate Wills Posted 12 February , 2003 Share Posted 12 February , 2003 Dave Thank you very much for the Northants look-ups - I will pass them on to the NIWM county co-ordinator. Of course we cannot be certain the lamps still exist...... Can anyone help here? Kate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HERITAGE PLUS Posted 12 February , 2003 Author Share Posted 12 February , 2003 Kate Funnily enough this lunch-time I met up with a friend who is a Toc H member (I'm not). Having mentioned your query to him he will try and find out what happens to lamps once they cease to be used by the various Branches. He was able to tell me that in Northamptonshire the Toc H is co-ordinated from a District HQ at Rushden. The District Co-ordinator is: Mrs.Megan Graham 7 Upper Park Avenue Rushden NN10 9NY Tel: 01933 356671 megan@nccnet.co.uk Hope this helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HERITAGE PLUS Posted 12 February , 2003 Author Share Posted 12 February , 2003 For those interested the following questions have been asked to TOC H National HQ. 1. What happens to the Lamps once they cease to be of use, for instance if a branch closes? 2. Have the Lamps been listed on the National Inventory of War Memorials held at the IWM? I will post the response as soon as I get it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Cross Posted 12 February , 2003 Share Posted 12 February , 2003 I would be interested to learn of any Oxfordshire information. Among my friends are those that still refer to 'Toc H lamps' but whom I have only recently educated as to what Toc H actually is. Does someone know the origin of the comparison ' ....... as bright as a Toc H lamp'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Morgan Posted 12 February , 2003 Share Posted 12 February , 2003 It's usually "dim" as in "He's as dim as a Toc-H lamp" meaning "not very bright." I was told that this was because being an oil lamp, the Toc-H lamp is a bit on the feeble side! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HERITAGE PLUS Posted 13 February , 2003 Author Share Posted 13 February , 2003 There are three recorded for Oxfordshire OXFORD Toc H Branch - 'THE M.O.'s LAMP' - In memory of N.G.CHAVASSE VC, RAMC and of Aidan Chavsse (given by their brother) First lit 15 December 1922 at Guildhall, London, by King Edward VIII, Patron Toc H, when Prince of Wales League of Women Helpers - 'THE MARIELLA ANNIE EGERTON LAMP' - In memory of Mariella Annie Egerton and her helpers at Rouen 1914-18 (given by Miss Sybil Egerton) First lit by Her Grace The Duchess of Devonshire (in the absence of HRH The Duchess of York through illness) at 42 Trinity Square, London on 22 February 1930 WITNEY - 'THE ROVER SCOUT LAMP' - In memory of Sydney Brown 26.4.32 and Edgar Porter 31.7.33, Rover Scouts (given by their brothers in Scouting) First lit 27 June 1936 at Crystal Palace by HRH The Duke of Kent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conor Dodd Posted 14 February , 2003 Share Posted 14 February , 2003 Any Irish men in it ? Conor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HERITAGE PLUS Posted 18 February , 2003 Author Share Posted 18 February , 2003 I have received the following reply to my queries about TocH lamps from TocH HQ: Thank you for your e-mail to John Burgess. He is currenlty out of theoffice, hence my reply. A Toc H lamp is presented to a branch when it is registered as a branch of Toc H. They keep the lamp for branch use until they close. On the closure of a branch the lamp is returned to our Head Offices as all lamps belong ultimately to the national movement rather than to individual branches or members. We keep a record of lamps centrally and this is not something that is recorded by the Imperial War Museum or the National Inventory of War Memorials. Some branches, when they have closed, have requested that their lamp go to a local museum or church and in these cases they are regarded as being on loan. I hope this helps. If you want more information on Toc H please go to our website - www.toch.org.uk With good wishes. Margaret Winstanley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HERITAGE PLUS Posted 18 February , 2003 Author Share Posted 18 February , 2003 Conor There are two Irish entries both in Belfast. BELFAST CENTRAL - 'THE THREE BROTHERS' LAMP' - In memory of Ernest Hewitt, Lt., 4th Batt. K.O.R.I.R, 15.6.1915, Holt Hewitt, Lt., and William Hewitt, Inniskillen Fusiliers, 1.7.16 (Given by Miss E.K.Cooke) First lit by HRH The Prince of Wales at The Memorial Hall, Farringdon Street, London on 13 December 1924 the ninth birthday of Toc H. DUNCAIRN - 'THE PAUL POLLOCK LAMP' - In memory of Paul Gilchrist Pollock, 14th Batt. Royal Irish Rifles (Y.C.Vs.) The Somme 1.7.1916 (Given by his father) First lit by HRH The Prince of Wales at The Town Hall, Birmingham, on 3 December 1932. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Reed Posted 18 February , 2003 Share Posted 18 February , 2003 Is there any mention of Captain Hugh Fenwick Mott MC in the book? He was an officer in the Queen's Westminster Rifles, and one of those who helped Tubby in the early days of TH. He was killed in No Man's Land at Gommecourt on 1st July 1916; one of the veterans I knew was his runner and saw him killed, so he's always been of interest. His name is listed on the 'roll of honour' in the hop loft chapel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HERITAGE PLUS Posted 19 February , 2003 Author Share Posted 19 February , 2003 Paul Sorry No mention at all of Mott Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kate Wills Posted 20 February , 2003 Share Posted 20 February , 2003 Thankyou for your contact with TocH regarding the NIWM. The fieldwork I have undertaken for the NIWM has included a multitude of objects, such as Sunday School chairs with names of the fallen carved in, churchwardens wands, foundation stones etc, etc. If I had come across a TocH lamp with a dedication I would have submitted it to the NIWM, so I can't understand this lady's assertion that "this is not something that is recorded by them". I thought they wanted a record of everything that comemmorated personal sacrifice or participation in war - hence the title National Inventory of War Memorials. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HERITAGE PLUS Posted 20 February , 2003 Author Share Posted 20 February , 2003 Kate I totally agree. I will be pressing TocH further on this and will keep the forum members informed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Tickner Posted 12 March Share Posted 12 March Hi I've been reading a lot about TocH. My Grandad. As Tubby would say, "TocH visited my Grandad," visited the original TocH in Poperinghe in 1916-1918, when he was in the RGA. My Grandad also visited a TocH in Catterick in 1947. Does anyone know where it was; The address I've got is High Trees, Catterick. Yorkshire. Seemingly it was near the Ypres/Gaza Lines at the Garrison. Most probably long since been demolished. Any information will be a bonus. many thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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