Peter Zieminski Posted 7 February , 2009 Share Posted 7 February , 2009 Hi Apologies in advance if this has already been asked and answered elsewhere, but does anyone know what the course of fire ( Target / Grouping / Distance / Required scores etc) was in 1915 that had to be completed in order to qualify (as an Infantryman) for a 'marksman' award, that enabled the recipient to wear the crossed rifles on their left sleeve? Kind regards Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr_Sunray Posted 7 February , 2009 Share Posted 7 February , 2009 Dunno about WWI but my Annual Personal Weapons Test was always over the required 60 points out of a total of 70. I was entitled to wear the Marksman crossed rifles badge but chose not to. In my opinion every Infantry soldier should be able to achieve marksman status. The test was conducted over distances of 100, 300 & 400 metres and different firing posistions. Steve Edited to add: IIRC the required score for the L1A1 SLR was 42/50. The figures I quoted above is for SA80 with SUSAT sight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
herbie4798 Posted 7 February , 2009 Share Posted 7 February , 2009 agree with what steve said. every infantryman should be a marksman. ive seen some terrible shots in my time, but aside from that there must have been a set criteria. being realistic the ranges probally would have been out to 300 and alternate positions. obviously weapons have improved in accuracy, but saying that the lee enfield was one hell of a weapon. hit targets up to 500 with that at bisley. ill have a look into it for you mate. james Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Tom Posted 8 February , 2009 Share Posted 8 February , 2009 Hello, One again not WW1; in the early 1950's miltary competion shoots had names which, I believe, originated after the Boer War - Methuen etc. I forget the detail, but a practice might involve 5 rounds at 600 yds, followed by movement to 500 or 400 in a defined period of time (at the double), followed by movement to 300 or 200 with snap and rapid shoots. Google yields Methuen as a run down followed by snap shooting (a club in USA, I think). Old Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Sweeney Posted 8 February , 2009 Share Posted 8 February , 2009 Peter, Here is some info on the actual course: Awarded to all men for perfomance in part III. Table B Appendix I of the Musketry Regulations. Classification (Infantry, Cavalry etc.--not including RA, ASC etc., which had different standards): Exersice 18. Grouping-- 2nd Class Elementary (Bulls Eye---100yrds--5rds---Lying Exersice 19. Snapshooting----Figure No.3 (Silhoutte)---200yrds---5rds---Lying taking cover as in 7. Bayonet fixed Exposure 4 seconds for each shot. Exersice 20. Slow---2nd Class Figure---400yrds--5rds--Lying taking cover as in 14. Exersice 21. Slow---2nd Class Figure---300yrds--5rds--Kneeling taking cover as in 16. Exersice 22. Rapid---2nd Class Figure---300yrds--15rds--Lying, Rifle to be loaded and 4 rds in the Magazine before target appears. Loading from pouch or bandolier by 5rds afterwards. One minute allowed. Exersice 23. Slow---1st Class Figure---500yrds--5rds---Lying. Exersice 24. rapid---1st Class Figure---500yrds--5rds---Lying. 30 seconds allowed Exersice 25. Slow---1st Class Figure---600yrds--5rds---Lying. taking cover as in 7. Any reference to a number refers back to a previous exercise. A soldier would have had to complete the entire Table B "parts I II and III" with enough points to classify as Marksman. Any soldier who classified as marksman was eligable to wear the crossed rifles. This link will take you to additional information Marksman thread Here are some of the target types: Hope this is of interest. Joe Sweeney Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
herbie4798 Posted 8 February , 2009 Share Posted 8 February , 2009 joe, thats some great info there mate. same concept as today really. old tom, in todays competitions held at bisley the following shoots are as follows. association cup, roupell cup, roberts cup, (after lord roberts) also the name of the indoor range complex there. whittiker trophey, grahem trophey and the army 100 shoot. similar to association. these are all ARA shoots. the methuen cup has been around for years. all shoots are from distances from 25m to 600m with various positions, so working on the same concept of positional shooting. known now as the operational shooting policy. the NRA shoots include a few of the following. britannia, queen mary, etc. im wont go on as i dont want to get in trouble , just thought it would be relevant to the thread. james Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joseph Posted 8 February , 2009 Share Posted 8 February , 2009 He required a score of over 130 firing that course to qualify as marksman. Regards Charles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Zieminski Posted 7 February , 2010 Author Share Posted 7 February , 2010 Many thanks to Joe and everyone else for your help - I have now managed to get a copy of the Musketry Regulations - Joe do you or anyone else know what the dimensions of the 2nd Class Elementary (Bull's Eye) target were please? Kind regards Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigelfe Posted 8 February , 2010 Share Posted 8 February , 2010 Was the term 'Marksman' actually used? I thought that a man qualified as a First, Second or Third Class Shot. Hence the long standing military shooting question 'have you classified?' Presumably the badge was awarded to First Class Shots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muerrisch Posted 8 February , 2010 Share Posted 8 February , 2010 Yes, Marksman indeed. Below that, 1st class, 2nd class, and 3rd class. Because good shooting was indeed part of the soldier's trade, he depended on his grading for an element of his pay. I find the idea [expressed above] of being allowed to opt not to wear the badge a trifle odd ....... I imagine the army found it rather useful to be able to identify the best shots in a hurry, for specific fire tasks. The badges were not for personal vanity, but to inform officers and NCOs ['strange ones'] needing to know. The alternative? "Hands up if you are good on the Lewis Gun?"!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T8HANTS Posted 8 February , 2010 Share Posted 8 February , 2010 Standing Orders of the LRB state that Marskmen will be excused fatigues, what more incentive, except extra beer money do you need? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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