Gunner Bailey Posted 5 February , 2009 Share Posted 5 February , 2009 I've just read in J Persico's 11th Month, 11th Day 11th Hour; that soldiers entering Mons on 11/11/18 passed dead soldiers wearing the Mons Star. Is this possible? I thought that the 'Mons Star' was a bar added to the 1914-1915 Star. Can someone tell me if what Persico has written is correct? Thanks Gunner Bailey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris_Baker Posted 5 February , 2009 Share Posted 5 February , 2009 Only ribbons had been issued by then. The Stars themselves were generally despatched in 1919. The 14 Star is a different (but similar) medal to the 14-15 Star. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockdoc Posted 5 February , 2009 Share Posted 5 February , 2009 I thought that the 'Mons Star' was a bar added to the 1914-1915 Star. I think the bar may have been added for clarity because of the close similarity between the two stars. The bar gives the qualifying dates: 5th August-22nd November 1914. Keith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris_Baker Posted 5 February , 2009 Share Posted 5 February , 2009 The bar was only given to those who had served under fire at some point between those dates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Incomer Posted 5 February , 2009 Share Posted 5 February , 2009 The bar was only given to those who had served under fire at some point between those dates. Defined as: "Within range of enemy mobile artillery" Les Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunner Bailey Posted 5 February , 2009 Author Share Posted 5 February , 2009 The bar was only given to those who had served under fire at some point between those dates. So Persico could be right then and the dead soldiers could have been wearing the ribbon. Thanks for the info. Gunner Bailey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockdoc Posted 5 February , 2009 Share Posted 5 February , 2009 Oh blast! I knew that and forgot. I blame it on old age and poverty...... Keith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
findabetterole Posted 5 February , 2009 Share Posted 5 February , 2009 Here you go chaps.. a picture paints a thousand words! Seph Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunner Bailey Posted 5 February , 2009 Author Share Posted 5 February , 2009 Here you go chaps.. a picture paints a thousand words! Seph Thanks Seph. I've not seen the 1914 star before but have my grandfather's 14-15 star. Did they share the same ribbon? GB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarryBettsMCDCM Posted 5 February , 2009 Share Posted 5 February , 2009 Yes the Ribbon is identical in both cases. The Clasp was not instituted until post War. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockdoc Posted 5 February , 2009 Share Posted 5 February , 2009 Here is my Grandfather's trio for comparison. They're as he left them to me and in desperate need of a clean. I must research the best way to do it before I try and mount them in a frame. Keith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
findabetterole Posted 5 February , 2009 Share Posted 5 February , 2009 Thanks for showing the medals Keith.. excellent! Keith, GB... to denote that the individual had been awarded the 1914 Star.. when the ribbons only we worn, the soldier was issued a small silver rosette to be worn upon the ribbon. I've attached a pic of the rosette itself, and one of the positioning as it would show when worn. Seph Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockdoc Posted 5 February , 2009 Share Posted 5 February , 2009 My Grandfather sewed his rosette onto the top of the medal ribbon for safe keeping. I know it's not strictly correct but that's how it's going to stay. Keith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
findabetterole Posted 5 February , 2009 Share Posted 5 February , 2009 My Grandfather sewed his rosette onto the top of the medal ribbon for safe keeping. I know it's not strictly correct but that's how it's going to stay. Keith Can't argue with that Keith! Seph Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavoT Posted 6 February , 2009 Share Posted 6 February , 2009 My Grandfather sewed his rosette onto the top of the medal ribbon for safe keeping. I know it's not strictly correct but that's how it's going to stay. Keith Interestingly enough I have a 1914 trio with a large rosette above the clasp and another trio with two small rosettes side by side and they've been like that for years. Again not strictly correct but I've left them as I found them. It also adds to the conversation when on display. Cheers, David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunner Bailey Posted 6 February , 2009 Author Share Posted 6 February , 2009 HarryB, Keith and Seph, Many thanks for the photos. I am now truly up to speed on this. John (GB) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Doyle Posted 6 February , 2009 Share Posted 6 February , 2009 Last point - the rosette was only for those men who were entitled to the bar, i.e. had served under fire as discussed. This means, of course, that not everyone was entitled to the bar (and rosette), even though awarded the 1914 star. Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Jones Posted 6 February , 2009 Share Posted 6 February , 2009 Just to test the knowledge of the more dedicated student of the 1914 Star. I have an in depth question for you. There are thousands of Soldiers who have the 1914 Star and Bar but did NOT get the Rosette. There is a reason but what is it? Regards Mike Jones Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrew pugh Posted 6 February , 2009 Share Posted 6 February , 2009 Hi All. When would a soldier have been issued with his small piece of ribbon to sew on his tunic for the 1914 Star, and the 1914/15 Star? I know the medals werent given until after the war.What im trying to say is, if a soldier was entitled to the 1914 Star or the 1914/15 Star, at what period in time would he have been given that peice of ribbon,would it have been issued when at the front/in rest by one of his officers to the effect of "Here you are private Smith your entitled to this sew it on your tunic. Another question I would like to ask is if a soldier was killed in 1918 would it be possible for him to have been wearing the ribbon for the 1914/15 Star when his body was found.My Gt Uncle entered the war on the 4/12.1914 but was a Special Reservist prior to that date,could there have been a possibility that he may have been given that small peice of ribbon for the 1914 Star by mistake at some time in his service from 4/12/1914 until he was killed 24/3/1918. Regards Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockdoc Posted 6 February , 2009 Share Posted 6 February , 2009 There is a reason but what is it? I know that the clasp had to be applied for because I have a letter from the Army sent in reply to a query saying they hadn't received my Grandfather's application. Was the rosette a second application? Andy: A Google search says that the 1914 Star was inaugurated in 1917 so I would guess that the ribbons started to go out during 1918 but I don't know when issuing began. I have a candid photo of my Grandfather in Salonika with a pale patch over the left breast pocket of his SD tunic that is almost certainly the ribbon. It was taken at 99th Anti-Aircraft Section and he was there from July 1917 to the end of November 1918 so that puts a very broad date on it. As he's wearing it on his service dress, I would say that it was quite possible for men moving up to see dead Contemptibles wearing their ribbons, as you have heard. Keith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muerrisch Posted 6 February , 2009 Share Posted 6 February , 2009 In partial answer to 2 posts above: the ribbon for the 1914 star was approved at same time and was probably issued very soon to the front line and became readily available through military tailors and indeed other outlets. This means late 1917 is likely for first wearings of the ribbon. The ribbons for all three varieties of 1914 and 1914-15 star were identical. As for clasp and roses [sic], issued together. 2 roses were issued. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
per ardua per mare per terram Posted 6 February , 2009 Share Posted 6 February , 2009 Interestingly enough I have a 1914 trio with a large rosette above the clasp and another trio with two small rosettes side by side and they've been like that for years. Again not strictly correct but I've left them as I found them. It also adds to the conversation when on display. The 'Clasp and Roses' were issued to living recipients. Clasp only to next of kin as the soldier would not be wearing just the ribbon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Reed Posted 6 February , 2009 Share Posted 6 February , 2009 So Persico could be right then and the dead soldiers could have been wearing the ribbon. Thanks for the info. Gunner Bailey In theory he could be right, be in reality this story is a myth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
per ardua per mare per terram Posted 6 February , 2009 Share Posted 6 February , 2009 I've just read in J Persico's 11th Month, 11th Day 11th Hour; that soldiers entering Mons on 11/11/18 passed dead soldiers wearing the Mons Star. It would have been possible to go past someone wearing the ribbon, but not the medal. Firstly with very few exceptions the medal had not been issued and also medals would not be worn in combat dress. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunner Bailey Posted 6 February , 2009 Author Share Posted 6 February , 2009 It would have been possible to go past someone wearing the ribbon, but not the medal. Firstly with very few exceptions the medal had not been issued and also medals would not be worn in combat dress. Thanks Paul and Per Ardua, My suspicion was that it was a myth. The book is full of errors and things that could have been verified easily but were not, my favourite being the '5lb Mills Bomb' every soldier carried in their pockets. Obviously the medals would not be worn (or could not have been) and he does not mention what regiment these dead soldiers were from. The Michael Palin documentary seems to have drawn heavily from this book, and I wonder how much the BBC checked facts? Gunner Bailey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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