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Remembered Today:

6th Btn Royal West Kents


brimacombe

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Trying to complete the enlistment dates for the 36 men from Holsworthy killed in WWI.

Are there any RWK experts out there who could perhaps give me an idea when the following two men would have enlisted...

G/24688 (Believed to be sometime in 1916 but no further details)

241216 (No clues! Apart from KIA 30 June 1918)

I'd be truly grateful for any ideas...

Kindest Regards

Shawn

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Trying to complete the enlistment dates for the 36 men from Holsworthy killed in WWI.

Are there any RWK experts out there who could perhaps give me an idea when the following two men would have enlisted...

G/24688 (Believed to be sometime in 1916 but no further details)

241216 (No clues! Apart from KIA 30 June 1918)

I'd be truly grateful for any ideas...

Kindest Regards

Shawn

Hi

Can I add a plea for any RWK expert to assist with a similar request for Private G/438 William George Peat - 6th Btn Royal West Kent Regiment - Entered France on 1 June 1916 and killed at Loos on 7 October 1916 - Any information on possible enlistment date or his (sadly) brief service history would be most welcome. Thank you.

Kind regards

Peter

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G/24688 broadly suggests a November/December 1915 enlistment. This is the time of Derby enlistment and therefore attestation at the end of 1915 does not necessarily mean being called upon to serve until some point in the future – from memory, but you might like to check, Derby men were called for service prior to March 1916 for single men and between March and June 1916 for married men. It depends whether Clifton volunteered for immediate service or enlisted under the Derby scheme.

241216 is a Territorial Forces number. Ward almost certainly enlisted as a Territorial 29/30th April 1916. He would have attested for either 4th or 5th (TF) Bttns, who served India, Mesopotamia, Palestine, but was drafted to a Service Bttn, in this case the 6th, upon completion of his basic training. Quite possibly he was sent across to F&F but not posted to the 6th Bttn until after he had arrived in F&F.

I hope this helps.

Regards,

Jonathan S

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Shawn

G/24688

Gilbert Clifton

Queens own (Royal West Kent Regiment)

6th Battalion

Born Holsworthy Devon

Enlisted Holsworthy Devon

Died of wounds 03/12/1917

France and Flanders

MM

Regards

Phil

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Hi

Can I add a plea for any RWK expert to assist with a similar request for Private G/438 William George Peat - 6th Btn Royal West Kent Regiment - Entered France on 1 June 1916 and killed at Loos on 7 October 1916 - Any information on possible enlistment date or his (sadly) brief service history would be most welcome. Thank you.

Kind regards

Peter

Peter - I receievd your email. Your request is next on my list. I will reply by email.

Regards,

Jonathan S

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Shawn

241216

Hubert Ward

Queens Own (Royal West Kent Regiment)

6th Battalion

Born Holsworthy

Enlisted Exeter

KIA 30/06/1918

France and Flanders

Regards

Phil

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G/24688 broadly suggests a November/December 1915 enlistment. This is the time of Derby enlistment and therefore attestation at the end of 1915 does not necessarily mean being called upon to serve until some point in the future – from memory, but you might like to check, Derby men were called for service prior to March 1916 for single men and between March and June 1916 for married men. It depends whether Clifton volunteered for immediate service or enlisted under the Derby scheme.

241216 is a Territorial Forces number. Ward almost certainly enlisted as a Territorial 29/30th April 1916. He would have attested for either 4th or 5th (TF) Bttns, who served India, Mesopotamia, Palestine, but was drafted to a Service Bttn, in this case the 6th, upon completion of his basic training. Quite possibly he was sent across to F&F but not posted to the 6th Bttn until after he had arrived in F&F.

I hope this helps.

Regards,

Jonathan S

Thanks Jonathan for the detail.

I do know that Gilbert Clifton MM appeared before the local appeal tribunal requesting that he be permitted to remain at home due to agricultural work and the fact his elder brothers were already serving abroad. This was in early 1916.

I wonder if you can elighten me regarding Ward. He enlisted at Exeter in Devon. I am confused why, if enlisting in Exeter he 1) would have enlisted as a territorial? and 2) why the RWK's and not the Devon's? I'm sorry if this sounds like a silly question but it really does confuse me! I can understand a man being drafted and being sent to a regiment that required more men.

Looking forward to hearing from you..

Regards

Shawn

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I can't help you with that question. My only thought is that he was a conscript and being a conscript he was told, in this instance, what Regiment he would serve in. But why a Territorial and not a regular/service battalion I really have no idea. Sorry!

Jonathan S

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I wonder if you can elighten me regarding Ward. He enlisted at Exeter in Devon. I am confused why, if enlisting in Exeter he 1) would have enlisted as a territorial? and 2) why the RWK's and not the Devon's? I'm sorry if this sounds like a silly question but it really does confuse me! I can understand a man being drafted and being sent to a regiment that required more men.

Shawn - I have some more info on Hubert Ward:

Enlisted 29/04/1916 and was posted to 2/5th Bn QORWK (TF). His original service number being TF/4246. He was re-numbered 241216 in March 1917 (TF were reorganised). there is no suggestion that he served with another Regiment previously ie. a TF Devons bttn.

2/5th only saw Home Service and were disbanded in Oct 1917 and Ward was posted to 4th Reserve Bttn. At some point between that date and his death, Ward was posted Overseas (F&F) and joined 6th Bttn in the Field and subsequently KIA 30/06/1918.

There would have been major drafts joining the 6th Bttn in December 1917/January 1918 following the bttn's decimation during the German counter-attack at Cambrai 30 Nov 1917. Also I think there was a general sending out of reinforcements to F&F from March 1918 due to the German offensives. Either of these periods are probable dates for Ward's transfer to a War Theatre.

I am afraid I still dont know why he enlisted in the TF in the Royal West Kent's when he was a West Countryman.

Regards,

Jonathan S

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WOW!

Thanks so much Jonathon - truly enlightening and a great amount of detail - really brilliant!! Thanks again! Any possibility of finding similar detail for Gilbert Clifton MM?

Regards

Shawn

Shawn - I have some more info on Hubert Ward:

Enlisted 29/04/1916 and was posted to 2/5th Bn QORWK (TF). His original service number being TF/4246. He was re-numbered 241216 in March 1917 (TF were reorganised). there is no suggestion that he served with another Regiment previously ie. a TF Devons bttn.

2/5th only saw Home Service and were disbanded in Oct 1917 and Ward was posted to 4th Reserve Bttn. At some point between that date and his death, Ward was posted Overseas (F&F) and joined 6th Bttn in the Field and subsequently KIA 30/06/1918.

There would have been major drafts joining the 6th Bttn in December 1917/January 1918 following the bttn's decimation during the German counter-attack at Cambrai 30 Nov 1917. Also I think there was a general sending out of reinforcements to F&F from March 1918 due to the German offensives. Either of these periods are probable dates for Ward's transfer to a War Theatre.

I am afraid I still dont know why he enlisted in the TF in the Royal West Kent's when he was a West Countryman.

Regards,

Jonathan S

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There isnt much I can add to Clifton. He would have been posted to either 3rd or 9th (Reserve) Bttn for his training. I expect it was 9th Bttn, which, to the best of my knowledge, was the normal training bttn for men posted to Service bttns. (3rd Bttn sending men primarily to 1st and 2nd bttn, although it didnt always work out that way).

He appears in the casualty lists just once and this is for the wound that caused his death. You have told me previously that Clifton died from wounds having been taken prisoner. This information and his date of death is evidence that he was taken prisoner during the German counter-attack of 30th November 1917. Seriously wounded, the Germans took him back to Caudry, the location of a German medical unit - I think it was probably their equivilent to our Casualty Clearing Stations but someone else may be able to clarify what kind of medical unit the Germans had at Caudry in December 1917. At Caudry he succumbed to his wounds and was, to my mind, almost certainly buried at Caudry by the Germans. According to CWGC "The British Cemetery (originally called the German Cemetery Extension) was begun in October 1918". Therefore Clifton was an existing burial when the British (actually NZ Div) started using it for their own burials (CWGC doesnt clarify but I assume the German burials were moved elsewhere).

It is most likely that Hubert Ward was one of the reinforcements to bring the 6th Bttn back up to strength following the 30th November casualties, from which Clifton had ultimately lost his life.

Regards,

Jonathan S

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  • 2 months later...
Peter - I receievd your email. Your request is next on my list. I will reply by email.

Regards,

Jonathan S

Jonathan

Are you still interested in Peat's Medal Trio (6th RWK)? They are now available again - If you are please email me.

Kind regards

Peter

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Jonathan

Are you still interested in Peat's Medal Trio (6th RWK)? They are now available again - If you are please email me.

Kind regards

Peter

Peter - I cant email you for whatever reason. Please email me direct

Thanks and regards,

Jonathan S

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