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The Great War (1914-1918) Forum

From a very new newbi.


barlykins
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post-37803-1233182132.jpgWould someone be kind enough to give me any information on this photo? I think it is of my grandfather's brother and I am led to believe he was from London his name is Phillip Allen. Thank you
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Well.

I'm no expert, but I see he is wearing wither the 1914 or 1914/15 Bar, along with it looks like the British War Medal. The stripes indicate years service abroad and looks like that single stripe is a Wound Stripe. I did a quick look on Ancestry for his MIC, but there are quite a few listed. So I'm sure, some of the other Pals on here can recognize the badge cap and that will help the search.

Jason.

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Great picture:

Right sleeve - five overseas service stripes, one for service overseas every year from 1914-18 (these would have been red for 1914, blue thereon)

Left sleeve – two good conduct badges (inverted chevrons), showing, I believe 4 years good conduct, vertical stripe is for one wounding, crossed rifles indicates a marksman (the man you want is 'Grumpy' here - he will no doubt put me right if I've strayed off course).

Top right sleeve shows a formation badge or 'battle patch', again someone will help with that too, same with medal ribbons, although eh left one is the 1914 or 1915 star (both had same ribbon)

Cap badge? A bit more difficulty. I would take a shot at the 10th Hackney Battalion, London Regiment, but this is a long shot. Its unusual shape is deceiving....

Peter

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He looks like a Private with 6 years good conduct (2 chevrons on left arm) who served overseas in all the years 1914 through to 1918 (five chevrons on right) arm. He has been wounded once. He is a marksman (crossed rifles badge) with a 1914 or 1914-15 Star, and what could be a Territorial Force Efficiency medal?

I think the triangle patch was used by 54th Division so the 10th Londons could be a good fit.

Five overseas chevrons suggests a Regular soldier though....

Does the address of 179 Church Street, Stoke Newington ring any bells?

Steve.

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The five inverted chevrons on his right cuff are for overseas service so he served abroad throughout the War. The first was issued for 1914 and was red. The other four would have been blue. I'm not sure about the crossed rifles on his left sleeve - marksman, perhaps? Between the rifles and the wound stripe are two inverted chevrons for good conduct (I think), partly hidden by a crease.

Can't help with the cap badge, I'm afraid.

Keith

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post-37803-1233184080.jpg

Thank you Jason,

I have another photo that I think is also of Phillip Allen but as I am really new at all this army stuff I am not sure. It would be nice to know if it could be Phillip as this photo has nothing on the back

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Great picture:

Right sleeve - five overseas service stripes, one for service overseas every year from 1914-18 (these would have been red for 1914, blue thereon)

Left sleeve – two good conduct badges (inverted chevrons), showing, I believe 4 years good conduct, vertical stripe is for one wounding, crossed rifles indicates a marksman (the man you want is 'Grumpy' here - he will no doubt put me right if I've strayed off course).

Top right sleeve shows a formation badge or 'battle patch', again someone will help with that too, same with medal ribbons, although eh left one is the 1914 or 1915 star (both had same ribbon)

Cap badge? A bit more difficulty. I would take a shot at the 10th Hackney Battalion, London Regiment, but this is a long shot. Its unusual shape is deceiving....

Peter

Thank you Peter,

So kind of you, I knew nothing about Phillip but with all the help I am receiving I am learning fast.

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He is a Company Quartmaster Segeant in tropical uniform (consistent with 10th Londons, as is the badge, though less obvious than the other). Also wounded once, and also a marksman.

I think that this is a different man. The first man is wearing a 1914 or 1914-15 Star the former not issued until late in 1917, the latter in 1919. He is a Private, whereas the 2nd is a Warrant Officer taken some time from 1916 onwards when the wound stripe was introduced. If the photo is the same man taken after the Private photo, we would expect him to have his medal ribbons and overseas stripes too. The timeline of these feels wrong to me.

Steve.

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There is certainly a strong facial similarity between the men in the two photos

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Hi Steve,

Thank you for the information as for the address I wish I knew. My grandfather was Phillip Allen’s brother he was George Allen RAMC 50857 but alas all I can find out about him is that his dad was also called George. I do have his medal card but as you knowthat tells me no personal information.

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Here is the Medal card that I "have my eye on" for Phillip Allen:

post-6536-1233185599.jpg

post-6536-1233185625.jpg

post-6536-1233185698.jpg

Normally a man would have one card (the first I have posted in two parts), but this man has two because the cards were made at different times and were not matched until later (1946?)

Steve.

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Just use the Fast Reply button at the bottom of the page to reply to posts (unless posting photos etc in which case use Add Reply).

Steve.

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Maybe an Uncle? The second photo does look older and the card is thicker it has H Welto Photo Woodbri*** embossed on it. Like I said nothing on the back of this one.

Thank you for your help

Thanks for that Fast Replied to this one. I will get there !!!!

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Wow, thank you Steve for the medal card, I will have to see if I can work back on the address fingers crossed. You have all been so helpful I really do apriciate it and now know a lot more about Phillip.

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I do'nt think it is a tropical uniform also it is not a crown above his stripes it looks like a trade badge as you can just see a laurel wreath.

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Barlykins - I've removed the quoted replies without text. Steve has shown you how to avoid this. Also I've adapted your title slightly in the hope of attracting more views from the experts. Good luck.

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Another great picture. He looks like he's wearing the same cap badge to me (10th Londons). His uniform is serge, not Khaki Drill, just with his service dress trousers cut down into shorts (common enough). He's got that wound stripe (vertical stripe) for wounding, and marksman badge (crossed rifles). The badge in wreath is either LG (Lewis Gunner), or, less likely L, which is gun layer (usually an artillery designation). he wears 1914 leather equipment belt and bayonet, which was, I believe worn on church parade, as well as when serving as a regimental policeman (although this latter would need confirmation). He's also got a formation patch, one which is difficult to determine, above his sergeant's stripes. Another cracking image!

Peter

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A bit of well-intentioned disinformation here!

2 good conduct badges were for 5 years, not 6.

A CQMS badge was three chevrons and crown above, and was not a warrant officer but a Colour Sergeant.

Not that it matters because the badge in second shot is not a crown but something in a laurel wreath. Such badges were 'appointment' if worn upper sleeve, but should have only been on right sleeve: often seen on both. So he is an assistant instructor in MG, LG or HG as the most likely.

The L badge was for RA and Tank Corps.

Apart from that, cannot argue!!!!!!!!

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It does look like an L to me, so maybe, in this case, the cap badge is a Tank Corps one in the second picture (it has the correct shape). One would, I assume, expect that a Tanker with an L badge would be a tank gunner (in order to help inform...), or is this incorrect? Back to you.

Peter

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Do you know? I've put five years down for every time I've posted on the good conduct stripes, and I was sure that I had been corrected by someone, and went and changed it! :(

And apologies for the crown/laurel wreath mistake. No defence except bad eyesight and tiredness. It was the worst day in a bad week at work, so maybe I shouldn't have posted at all!

Mea culpa.

Steve.

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That second ribbon. If he's a London lad, could he have been in the Metropolitan Police and received the 1902 or 1911 Police Coronation Medal? The other possbility is that it a Delhi Durbar Medal from regular Army service.

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Do you know? I've put five years down for every time I've posted on the good conduct stripes, and I was sure that I had been corrected by someone, and went and changed it! :(

And apologies for the crown/laurel wreath mistake. No defence except bad eyesight and tiredness. It was the worst day in a bad week at work, so maybe I shouldn't have posted at all!

Mea culpa.

Steve.

FERGETIT !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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