white feathers given

[MichaelBully]

Hello Jax

I can recomend another GWF thread on this topic

http://1914-1918.inv...1

and links therein mention Admiral Fitzgerald and his Folkstone meeting

Also an article

http://studentpulse.com/articles/151/the-white-feather-campaign-a-struggle-with-masculinity-during-world-war-i

With regard to public school men, as from 1908 the Officers Training Corps (OTC) were affiliated to many public schools to encourage pupils to get used to the notion of military service to one's country. Vera Brittain's 'Testament of Youth' and 'Chronicle of Youth' and Don Farr's book on the main male characters of 'Testament of Youth' -'None That Go Return' explore the connections as it were.

Yes the split between the Pankhurst women, with Sylvia being opposed to the War, whilst Emmeline and Christabel Pankhurst being stridently in favour has been discussed. A very useful anthology of women's writings and disagreements can be found in 'The Virago Book of Women and the Great War' edited by Joyce Marlow. This collection draws on contemporary women's writings, both in favour and against supporting the Great War.

But so far we still have the problem with regard to women who gave out the white feathers during the Great War seemingly not writing about their activities and motives , even after the War was over.and even when invited to do so years later.

Regards

Michael Bully

Hello Michael.

I have just read your comments about wanting more information about the white feathers.

I did a presentation to my writing group last year on my grandfather's invovlvement in the war as an Army Service Corps driver. One comment I found - which is wholly misleading - suggested that the ACS - or Ally Slopers as they were known - were little short of being shirkers and not brave enough to fight. It really upset me so I did some more research. Basically it was very bad research which I have dismissed entirely.

The idea of the white feather being dispensed was instigated by an Admiral Charles Fitzgerald who held a meeting in Folkstone. His intention had been to get his women audience to harrass those men he thought were not doing the right thing for king and country. The symbols were to be directed he urged to 'young men of public school and university education' who it was felt should have been there to volunteer. He felt that they were 'found idling and loafing'.

One of his most enthuesiastic advocates was Mrs Pankhurst.

Yours Jax.

[peterhogg]

Whenever I read these accounts of serving men in civvies being handed white feathers a couple of questions spring to mind--and I am not doubting the veracity of the accounts---and while I do assume that in the past or present and at any given time about one third of humans are idiots or act like them (myself included) surely some of these feather-wielding women might have first asked whether the target of their shaming was serving or otherwise doing something for the war effort? It can't have been that uncommon. I mean, surely some of these women had friends or knew of friends who were home on leave in civvies or factory workers or wounded etc... and that it might be worthwhile to check first, have some prior knowledge, do a little research, to at least save on white feathers being given to the wrong guys?

[dfaulder]

There is of course the story (which I hope is true) of the soldier who when given one said "thank-you my dear, that is the second gift I have recieved today", and pulled out of his pocket his first gift - a VC received from the King that very morning!

David

[lauracobb]

That is excellent David...I really hope that happened

I read a local account about a gentleman on leave from the RNAS sitting at the local train station in uniform. A woman walked up to him and presented him with a white feather. He was flabbergasted understandably, as he was clearly in the forces. When he asked why he was given this...she replied something along the lines of 'You are not in the army, the Royal Navy are useless in the skies'. A couple of women at the station grabbed her and threatened to throw her in front of the next train, unless she promised not to do it again.

[MichaelBully]

From previous discussions, I recall one contributor pointing out that perhaps the 'women with the white feathers' might have lost loved ones in the War, and were taking their grief out on seemingly fit young men who appeared to be 'shirking'. This does not justify their actions but brought a new slant on the issue as it were.

Another point raised was that the 'women with the white feathers' generated derision from Britain's enemies, as they could claim that British men did not really want to fight unless shamed into doing so.

And in the first part of the Great War, Britain was very keen to impress neutral powers- so allegations that British women had to force their men to volunteer would not be helpful to this end.

That is excellent David...I really hope that happened

I read a local account about a gentleman on leave from the RNAS sitting at the local train station in uniform. A woman walked up to him and presented him with a white feather. He was flabbergasted understandably, as he was clearly in the forces. When he asked why he was given this...she replied something along the lines of 'You are not in the army, the Royal Navy are useless in the skies'. A couple of women at the station grabbed her and threatened to throw her in front of the next train, unless she promised not to do it again.

[Ashleigh]

Hello Michael.

Thank you for your reply and the link to another reference to Fitzgerald.

Because we live in such a liberated society now it is difficult to imagine just how hard it was for women before the right to vote. It is easy to make criticisms about Pankhurst and those she encouraged but I do wonder if this was an unpleasant consequence of not being given a voice.

Jax

[MichaelBully]

Hello Jax,

With respect to Mrs. Emmeline Pankhurst, she appeared in Russia in the Summer of 1917, to make connections with Russian women but particularly to encourage the Russian people during Kerensky's rule to back a policy of continuing on the Eastern Front. So although she could not vote, Mrs. Pankhurst still excercised a degree of influence.

I read somewhere that Ramsay MacDonald also tried to get to Russia at the same time, hoping to encourage the new regime to back a policy of peace, but Mrs. Pankhurst got there first.

Mrs. Pankhurst was a well known public speaker in Britain and seemed to have gained an insight in generating the attention of the newspapers to convery a sort of Feminist pro-War position, ultimately she found other ways of taking part in the War-effort without the vote.

I am honestly not sure if this support for the War was somehow due to not being able to vote or feeling marginalised in some way. Mrs. Emmeline Pankhurst seemed to genuinely support the War. It caused a break with her daughter Sylvia who was opposed to the War.

Michael Bully

Hello Michael.

Thank you for your reply and the link to another reference to Fitzgerald.

Because we live in such a liberated society now it is difficult to imagine just how hard it was for women before the right to vote. It is easy to make criticisms about Pankhurst and those she encouraged but I do wonder if this was an unpleasant consequence of not being given a voice.

Jax

[clive_hughes]

Just to add to the source material a bit,

the Dept. of Documents at the IWM London have (?may still be on display in the WW1 cases) an anonymous letter sent to one man suggesting that as he hadn't joined up, he might care to apply for the post of washer-up to the local Girl Guides.

No feathers involved, but the aim was the same!

LST_164

[MichaelBully]

Interesting ! Yes, it is worth thinking of other pressure placed on men to join up besides the notorious white feathers. Another tactic was for a young lady to threaten to dump her boyfriend if he did not join up.

I remember posting this on 23rd January 2010 : Always makes me smile.

"As it's Saturday night I thought it would be time for a more light hearted post. Really appreciated this anecdote I found in Arthur Ponsonby's 'Falsehood in War Time' (1929)

" The Times (agony column), July 9, 1915:

Jack F. G. --- If you are not in khaki by the 20th, 1 shall cut you dead.-

--ETHEL M.

The Berlin correspondent of the Cologne Gazette transmitted this :

If you are not in khaki by the 20th, hacke ich dich zu Tode (I will hack

you to death). "

Just to add to the source material a bit,

the Dept. of Documents at the IWM London have (?may still be on display in the WW1 cases) an anonymous letter sent to one man suggesting that as he hadn't joined up, he might care to apply for the post of washer-up to the local Girl Guides.

No feathers involved, but the aim was the same!

LST_164

[MichaelBully]

Found an interesting letter from the Sussex Daily News' of 1st September 1914 supporting the 'women with the white feather'

" The White Feather

Sir- I am delighted to see that some of the women of FOlkstone have banded together to present a white feather to to some of the 'slackers' who infest the Leas. Brighton simply reeks with them. I would suggest some similar movement here, where there is a wide field for it.

It is, of course, possible that some of these youths are unable to volunteer for the Front owing to family ties, old mothers absolutely depedent on them etc. Of such I do not speak, but the vast majority have no such ties. They simply funk it. At the same time, of course, on fears that one be doing them a grave injustice. It is quite possible that many of them are aware in their little minds that if they saw a German with a rifle, they would run and thus be a danger to our own troops. Moreover, many of them may be doing good by stelath, and would blush to find it fame. Perhaps they are knitting socks etc for the men at the front.

The old saying that 'every private carries a Filed Marshall's baton in his knapsack still holds good, but I fear that our English 'nut' has not even a Colonel in it, I mean a kernel. Yhey are quite empty of anything good.

I suggest that all big cricket grounds, Lord's etc be taken over as parade grounds; that all golf links and tennis courts be closed to all men under 40 years of age unless they have applied for service and have been rejected- Yours, etc

- W. Mereweather, Lieutenant Colonel, 38 Landsdowne Place, Hove, 31st August "

[PFF]

A story from 1916 about a "white Feather" which backfired on the person who gave it out...is it true?

http://chroniclingamerica.loc.gov/lccn/sn83045487/1916-04-20/ed-1/seq-18/#date1=1914&index=2&rows=20&searchType=advanced&language=&sequence=0&words=feather+FEATHER+WHITE+whiteness&proxdistance=5&date2=1916&ortext=&proxtext=White+feather&phrasetext=&andtext=&dateFilterType=yearRange&page=1

A 1914 story concerning the "White feather" not connected to War....!

http://chroniclingamerica.loc.gov/lccn/sn92061524/1914-01-17/ed-1/seq-1/#date1=1914&index=19&rows=20&searchType=advanced&language=&sequence=0&words=feather+white&proxdistance=5&date2=1916&ortext=&proxtext=White+feather&phrasetext=&andtext=&dateFilterType=yearRange&page=1

[healdav]

I would have thought any but the thickest lump would have known that shells, guns, ships, aircraft et al, do not design themselves.

As most designers were men at the time, they would not be in the army/Navy/ Air Force.

I have already written about my father who was given one in WW2, with the witless woman not knowing that he was in a job from which he was forbidden to resign, and forbidden to volunteer, and was exempt from conscription as, in the words of a letter forbidding him to join even the Home Guard, "In the event of invasion he will be evacuated with the Fleet".

[BereniceUK]

Any women who did this were doing it indiscriminately. Male key workers in war industries were often given white feathers. As a result arm bands were sometimes issued by factories.

Would that be the reason for wounded soldiers being given "hospital blues" to wear?

I read that even schoolboys were sometimes given white feathers.

[fellop]

If I may add.

I remember sometime in the late sixties my grandfather telling me about some of his wartime stories, he was a pre war regular and in the RE to do with map making and survey; later in civilian life he was to become a Superintendant at the Ordnance Survey offices in Southampton and later in Edinburgh during WW2.

However his story goes that he was back at home in Southampton on leave from the front and in civilian clothes when he was accosted very publicly by who he described as a lady of refinement, and she presented him a white feather along with a scornful remark.

He [the story he tells] then explained very loudly so that many passers could hear that not only was he a soldier but he was a regular soldier and that he had been at the front since 1914. He then asked the lady exactly just what it was that she had done for the war effort and when there was no reply he gave her the white feather back saying perhaps you deserve this.

Regards

Peter

[PabloC]

My O/H's Great grandmother's brother was Police Constable in Stamford, Lincs at the outbreak of the War.

Encouraged to enlist by his sisters and mother, he landed in France in July 1916, and was eventually killed in Belgium in July 1917, aged 27.

His mother never got over his death and his sisters too carried the guilt of their part in encouraging him to enlist throughout their lives.

All very sad.

Paul