Timb Posted 24 January , 2009 Share Posted 24 January , 2009 Hi I have this photo amongst some family photos, most of which were of relations in the Great War. It was taken in Nottingham but I don't know when. Would anyone recognise the badge or the cross? The badge looks like that of the Sherwood Foresters but with the "Stags" from the Nottingham coat of arms? Any help would be gratefully received. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarryBettsMCDCM Posted 24 January , 2009 Share Posted 24 January , 2009 The Badge appears to be a Notts & Derby Sweetheart,possibly in Ivory or Coral or Mother of Pearl as such items were carved in Victorian/Edwardian times... The Cross below it may be of memorium or religious significance?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timb Posted 28 January , 2009 Author Share Posted 28 January , 2009 The Badge appears to be a Notts & Derby Sweetheart,possibly in Ivory or Coral or Mother of Pearl as such items were carved in Victorian/Edwardian times... The Cross below it may be of memorium or religious significance?? Thanks for the information. It's a shame that the detail on the image is burnt out on the badge, otherwise it may have been easier to identify. Thanks again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Doyle Posted 28 January , 2009 Share Posted 28 January , 2009 The badge is certainly a Notts and Derby Regiment one, and I wonder, in fact, if it is not just a cap badge, as there seems to be good 3-D definition upon it. Cap badges were commonly modified as 'sweetheart' brooches. Cheers Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRONNO Posted 28 January , 2009 Share Posted 28 January , 2009 The badge is certainly a Notts and Derby Regiment one, and I wonder, in fact, if it is not just a cap badge, as there seems to be good 3-D definition upon it. Cap badges were commonly modified as 'sweetheart' brooches. Cheers Peter Hi, this is a common sweetheart brooch to The Notts and Derbys, here is one with the GV Crown the one in your photograph looks like an Edward V11 issue they are usually found in white metal. It is about half the size of a normal cap badge. BRONNO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarryBettsMCDCM Posted 28 January , 2009 Share Posted 28 January , 2009 From the scale of the one in the Picture it seems to be "actual size" or larger & the crown either voided or enamelled?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timb Posted 28 January , 2009 Author Share Posted 28 January , 2009 From the scale of the one in the Picture it seems to be "actual size" or larger & the crown either voided or enamelled?? Thanks very much for your help. Would it be possible that it would be worn by a mother? We have two Sherwood Foresters in the family but both were killed, one aged 21 the other 23 so the lady concerned looks a little old to be a wife. Private George Lokes 242604, 1st/6th Bn Sherwood Foresters Died 11 March 1917 Warlincourt Halte British Cemetery Private John William Lokes 265702, 2nd/7th Bn Sherwood Foresters Died 9 April 1917 Vadencourt British Cemetery We think that we have the photos the right way around but in reality we don't know which photo is which man. Are there any clues in the uniform for the trained eye? Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timb Posted 28 January , 2009 Author Share Posted 28 January , 2009 Hi, this is a common sweetheart brooch to The Notts and Derbys, here is one with the GV Crown the one in your photograph looks like an Edward V11 issue they are usually found in white metal. It is about half the size of a normal cap badge. BRONNO. Bronno I have just re-read your post, if it is an Edward VII pattern it obviously does not relate to the two men above. So I have to start looking for soldiers earlier than 1917! Thanks once again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRONNO Posted 28 January , 2009 Share Posted 28 January , 2009 From the scale of the one in the Picture it seems to be "actual size" or larger & the crown either voided or enamelled?? Sorry to have to disagree with the other forum member but the badge in the picture is not a cap badge as I have every cap badge issued to the Regiment at my disposal, it is as he points out, voided, but it is still not a cap badge. 242604 George Lokes, 6th Btn he lived at 33 Union Road, Nottingham. 265702 John Lokes, K.I.A. in the trenches near Vendelles in France 2/7th Btn Robin Hood Rifles (Notts and Derby Regt). Excellent photographs by the way. BRONNO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timb Posted 29 January , 2009 Author Share Posted 29 January , 2009 Sorry to have to disagree with the other forum member but the badge in the picture is not a cap badge as I have every cap badge issued to the Regiment at my disposal, it is as he points out, voided, but it is still not a cap badge. 242604 George Lokes, 6th Btn he lived at 33 Union Road, Nottingham. 265702 John Lokes, K.I.A. in the trenches near Vendelles in France 2/7th Btn Robin Hood Rifles (Notts and Derby Regt). Excellent photographs by the way. BRONNO. BRONNO Thanks for all your efforts. Is it definitely is the Edward VII pattern? The date of the badge gives us a problem! Looking at what we know of the family tree we don't seem to have any evidence of anyone in the army before WW1. Having said that we don't actually know who the lady is so she may be a 'red herring' and not be family at all! The Lokes family didn't fare too well in the war, George and John (above) were brothers but they also lost their cousins: Private Arthur Lokes, 11521, 8th Btn Leicester Regt., died 14/08/15 Bailleul Communal Cemetery Extension. Lance Corporal Samuel Lokes, 19203, 10th Btn. Lincolnshire Regt., died 19/10/17 St Sever Cemetery Extension, Rouen Thanks once again for your help with this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebriggs Posted 16 February , 2009 Share Posted 16 February , 2009 Tim (just read your message, thanks) Here's a bit of info on George Lokes:- Originally numbered 2817 in the 1/7th Battn, which means he probably enlisted in September 1914. Originally arrived in France on 28.6.15. (I think he was then wounded and returned to England). He was then renumbered 20011 and 242604 and found himslef in the 26th Reinforcment to the 1/6th Battn, which arrived in France in December 1916. However you will note that his MIC also has the number 344 on it, which suggests he enlisted in 1908 when the Territorial Force was formed?? Bit of a puzzler that one, it'll be interesting to see what number is on his 14-15 Star cheers Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timb Posted 16 February , 2009 Author Share Posted 16 February , 2009 Bit of a puzzler that one, it'll be interesting to see what number is on his 14-15 Star Hi Mike Thanks for the info. I suspect that the initial Number 344 is some kind of error; George was only 21 when he died in 1917 so unless he enlisted at 12 I think that we have a problem. Tim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarryBettsMCDCM Posted 16 February , 2009 Share Posted 16 February , 2009 Sorry to have to disagree with the other forum member but the badge in the picture is not a cap badge as I have every cap badge issued to the Regiment at my disposal, it is as he points out, voided, but it is still not a cap badge. Which is why I didn't state it was a Cap Badge but was approximately the same size as one; I still reckon it to be an earlier Jewellery/Ivory/Coral {such bijous being popular in late Victorian/Edwardian times} replicated item rather than any "official" badge,as per my original posting!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest johnlokes Posted 28 March , 2009 Share Posted 28 March , 2009 Thanks very much for your help. Would it be possible that it would be worn by a mother? We have two Sherwood Foresters in the family but both were killed, one aged 21 the other 23 so the lady concerned looks a little old to be a wife. Private George Lokes 242604, 1st/6th Bn Sherwood Foresters Died 11 March 1917 Warlincourt Halte British Cemetery Private John William Lokes 265702, 2nd/7th Bn Sherwood Foresters Died 9 April 1917 Vadencourt British Cemetery We think that we have the photos the right way around but in reality we don't know which photo is which man. Are there any clues in the uniform for the trained eye? Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest johnlokes Posted 28 March , 2009 Share Posted 28 March , 2009 Hello, i was wondering if you have any more info about George and John. My Grandfather was Henry John Lokes who lived in union rd Nottingham and served at the same time in the foresters. I know he came from a large family. Although wounded he survived the war and lived to his late eighties. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timb Posted 24 June , 2009 Author Share Posted 24 June , 2009 Hello, i was wondering if you have any more info about George and John. My Grandfather was Henry John Lokes who lived in union rd Nottingham and served at the same time in the foresters. I know he came from a large family. Although wounded he survived the war and lived to his late eighties. Thanks. Hi The chances are that all the Lokes boys were related, we certainly had relations in Union Rd , Milk St and the surrounding area. Do you know who your man's father was? If so I'm sure we can work it out, the problem is that all the Lokes family had about five names between them all! Please let me know Tim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timb Posted 24 June , 2009 Author Share Posted 24 June , 2009 Hi The chances are that all the Lokes boys were related, we certainly had relations in Union Rd , Milk St and the surrounding area. Do you know who your man's father was? If so I'm sure we can work it out, the problem is that all the Lokes family had about five names between them all! Please let me know Tim Hi I have just checked a few things out. If your great grandparents were John Lokes and Alice Waplington then your relation is the youngest brother of the two boys above. PM me if you get this message Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Stewart Posted 24 June , 2009 Share Posted 24 June , 2009 Hi Mike Thanks for the info. I suspect that the initial Number 344 is some kind of error; George was only 21 when he died in 1917 so unless he enlisted at 12 I think that we have a problem. Tim I think our Notts & Derby colleagues would agree that the low number 344 is correct and that you're probably looking at a National Reservist with the Territorial Force. This accounts for his later five figure number beginning with 20***. The six figure number being issued in 1917. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timb Posted 28 June , 2009 Author Share Posted 28 June , 2009 I think our Notts & Derby colleagues would agree that the low number 344 is correct and that you're probably looking at a National Reservist with the Territorial Force. This accounts for his later five figure number beginning with 20***. The six figure number being issued in 1917. Hi I don't know where we go from here. Lokes is a very unusual surname so the room for error is quite small. As far as we know four Lokes boys died. George, John W, Arthur & Samuel. All are related and found in the family tree as we understand it. I know that people were often referred to by other names than their christened name (Jack & John etc) but we have no other Georges that we are aware of. Our George was definitely born in 1896, meaning that he was 12 when the Territorial number 344 was issued. The only other possibility (although remote) is that there was another George of whom we know nothing and our George survived! There is however only one George Lokes in both the 'UK soldiers Died in the war' and 'medal rolls' Anyone with a good idea is welcome to try to work it out!!! Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebriggs Posted 28 June , 2009 Share Posted 28 June , 2009 Hi Tim Perhaps need to look more carefully at the MIC. 1) It was originally filled out in red for the 14-15 Star. At this time there was a G Lokes numbered 344 who arrived in France on 28.6.15. 2) A second person then filled out details for the BWM and VM in blue ink and at this time added the new numbers and filled in 'eorge' It makes you wonder if the clerk didn't get two different men confused? I have to say that I find it difficult to rationalise the two different '4 digit' numbers. BUT.......... his correct date of death is recorded on the MIC in red ink ?? I am confused all the more now Let me have think.................. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timb Posted 29 June , 2009 Author Share Posted 29 June , 2009 Hi Tim Perhaps need to look more carefully at the MIC. 1) It was originally filled out in red for the 14-15 Star. At this time there was a G Lokes numbered 344 who arrived in France on 28.6.15. 2) A second person then filled out details for the BWM and VM in blue ink and at this time added the new numbers and filled in 'eorge' It makes you wonder if the clerk didn't get two different men confused? I have to say that I find it difficult to rationalise the two different '4 digit' numbers. BUT.......... his correct date of death is recorded on the MIC in red ink ?? I am confused all the more now Let me have think.................. Mike Thanks for your thoughts Mike. It looks as if the 344 number and the DoW date were in the same ink and handwriting so presumably the card was written after his death and 344 was his number when he died! The other numbers being added later again - why? I'm afraid that I'm at a loss now. I'll try looking for other G Lokes names and see if there is a mix up somewhere. Thanks Tim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRONNO Posted 30 June , 2009 Share Posted 30 June , 2009 quote It looks as if the 344 number and the DoW date were in the same ink and handwriting so presumably the card was written after his death and 344 was his number when he died! The other numbers being added later again - why? I'm afraid that I'm at a loss now. I'll try looking for other G Lokes names and see if there is a mix up somewhere. Thanks Tim --------------------------------- Hi Tim, in reply to your message. I have been through the Notts and Derby data base and below is a list of all the men with the surname "Lokes" mentioned. 242604/20011/344 Pte George Lokes, 6th Btn. 265747 Pte J Lokes, 7th Btn (Robin Hoods). Missing 21.3.1918, was in "D" Coy. 265702 Bgl John William Lokes, 2/7th Btn (Robin Hoods). then onto Loakes. 4964383 Pte Ernest Loakes, 7th Btn (Robin Hoods), previously served in the TA. 1665 Pte Henry Loakes, 5th Btn, Enl 23.5.1912. Disc 6.1.1915. SWB. Reginald Dexter Loakes, Enl April 1915, Derby Mercury states aged 22years on 8.12.1916, Notts and Derby Regt. Trans to the South Staffs. Frank Richard Loak Notts and Derby Regt. No number as yet! came from Beeston, Notts. Hope this helps but I'm afraid this is all the info i have with the surname you state with some slight variations, kind regards. BRONNO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MBrockway Posted 1 July , 2009 Share Posted 1 July , 2009 Bronno, I'm puzzled by the cap badge in the photo of Private John William Lokes 265702, 2nd/7th Bn Sherwood Foresters (Robin Hood Rifles) died 9 April 1917, buried Vadencourt British Cemetery. I thought the Robin Hood Rifles cap badge was very close to the Rifle Brigade pattern - laurel wreath, enclosing a maltese cross with a strung bugle in the central boss? The badge in the photo looks more like a wreath-less KRRC maltese cross with an additional scroll underneath - a bit like the 12/Londons (The Rangers). I'm no expert on the Sherwood Foresters (even though as a schoolboy cadet I was badged under the WSFs!) but I have the 7/SF territorial badge on my "radar" because of its similarity to the rifles regiments badges. Can you help?!?! Cheers, Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRONNO Posted 1 July , 2009 Share Posted 1 July , 2009 Bronno, I'm puzzled by the cap badge in the photo of Private John William Lokes 265702, 2nd/7th Bn Sherwood Foresters (Robin Hood Rifles) died 9 April 1917, buried Vadencourt British Cemetery. I thought the Robin Hood Rifles cap badge was very close to the Rifle Brigade pattern - laurel wreath, enclosing a maltese cross with a strung bugle in the central boss? The badge in the photo looks more like a wreath-less KRRC maltese cross with an additional scroll underneath - a bit like the 12/Londons (The Rangers). I'm no expert on the Sherwood Foresters (even though as a schoolboy cadet I was badged under the WSFs!) but I have the 7/SF territorial badge on my "radar" because of its similarity to the rifles regiments badges. Can you help?!?! Cheers, Mark Hello Mark, your absolutely right with regards to the "Robin Hoods" badge being very similar to the "The Rangers" and several other Rifle Battalions. The cap badges shown in the two pictures are the standard issue to the Forester Regiment, a bi-metal badge with the maltese cross surmounted with the kings crown and the Notts and Derby brass scroll etc. The 7th and 2/7th (Robin Hood) Battalions did have their own issue as you have stated these being introduced in 1908 and worn throughout the war, they were previously the old Rifle Corps. So i don't quite know the full reason why, if one of them is a Robin Hood, why he's not wearing the correct badge. Could be a simple answer somewhere. BRONNO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebriggs Posted 1 July , 2009 Share Posted 1 July , 2009 Hello Mark, your absolutely right with regards to the "Robin Hoods" badge being very similar to the "The Rangers" and several other Rifle Battalions. The cap badges shown in the two pictures are the standard issue to the Forester Regiment, a bi-metal badge with the maltese cross surmounted with the kings crown and the Notts and Derby brass scroll etc. The 7th and 2/7th (Robin Hood) Battalions did have their own issue as you have stated these being introduced in 1908 and worn throughout the war, they were previously the old Rifle Corps. So i don't quite know the full reason why, if one of them is a Robin Hood, why he's not wearing the correct badge. Could be a simple answer somewhere. BRONNO. Did the Notts and Derby move over to a standard 'economy' version as the war went on? There was a thread a while ago which stated that the TF stopped issuing the 5 and 3 tier shoulder badges. Could the same have happened to cap badges? Just a thought still puzzling over the 344 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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