Jump to content
The Great War (1914-1918) Forum

The Irish Brigade June 7, 1917


Guest
 Share

Recommended Posts

My Dad had a document awarded to him (168235 Gr. Stephen M. Hall C/180 Bde RFA) for "gallant conduct" on June 7, 1917 and signed by Major General W.B. Hickie commanding the 16th Irish Division. I understand The Irish Division was engaged in the Messine campaign at this time.

I have searched without success to out find more about this. I was told that he and another gunner went into no-man's land and rescued two wounded, during the second rescue my father's comrade was killed by a sniper and the officer in charge ordered my Dad to make that enough before he too was killed. What I have from Ancestry makes no mention of this event, that part of his record was proabably lost amongst the burnt records.

My research shows that the 180th was raised in West Ham. My Dad was from Newport, Mon. he was transfered to the West Ham brigade at some point, I have a story about that which I'll tell another time!

I was told that the Irish Division records are hard to uncover, something to do with the Irish "troubles" in the 1920's.

Any ideas or advice about this mystery would be most appreciated. Dad did do something special and I would dearly love to know for sure what it was. He himself would not talk about it - it came with the rations, was all he would say.

Thanks,

Steve's Daughter, Kathy

Link to comment
Share on other sites

He would have received a card like the one below .. around about the same size.

Conduct cards were issued by Divisions for various reasons .. the most common being that the Division may well have put a man forward for an award but the powers that be decided against full award. This was a bit of an annoyance so in some divisions a conduct card was issued instead.

It should also be remembered that there was a 'quota' system in operation for medals (as far as I know) .. thus you could, in theory commit an act worthy of (e.g.) a MM but it could be 'shot down' due to quota exhaustion.

June 7 1917 is indeed the date of Messines attack. 36th (Ulster) and 16th (Irish) attacke side by side at Wytescaete, Belgiu,. It was in western front terms a hugely wellk planned and successful attack mememorable for the explosion of gigantic mines.

Interestingly, the Ulster Division's original artillery was recruited around West Ham!

post-1582-1232820539.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

He would have received a card like the one below .. around about the same size.

Conduct cards were issued by Divisions for various reasons .. the most common being that the Division may well have put a man forward for an award but the powers that be decided against full award. This was a bit of an annoyance so in some divisions a conduct card was issued instead.

It should also be remembered that there was a 'quota' system in operation for medals (as far as I know) .. thus you could, in theory commit an act worthy of (e.g.) a MM but it could be 'shot down' due to quota exhaustion.

June 7 1917 is indeed the date of Messines attack. 36th (Ulster) and 16th (Irish) attacke side by side at Wytescaete, Belgiu,. It was in western front terms a hugely wellk planned and successful attack mememorable for the explosion of gigantic mines.

Interestingly, the Ulster Division's original artillery was recruited around West Ham!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

He would have received a card like the one below .. around about the same size.

Conduct cards were issued by Divisions for various reasons .. the most common being that the Division may well have put a man forward for an award but the powers that be decided against full award. This was a bit of an annoyance so in some divisions a conduct card was issued instead.

It should also be remembered that there was a 'quota' system in operation for medals (as far as I know) .. thus you could, in theory commit an act worthy of (e.g.) a MM but it could be 'shot down' due to quota exhaustion.

June 7 1917 is indeed the date of Messines attack. 36th (Ulster) and 16th (Irish) attacke side by side at Wytescaete, Belgiu,. It was in western front terms a hugely wellk planned and successful attack mememorable for the explosion of gigantic mines.

Interestingly, the Ulster Division's original artillery was recruited around West Ham!

Thanks for the info..I do remember being told that there might have been a MM recomended, but if such decorations were to be given every time one was deserved there would be so many the medals would lose their meaning, hence the quota system. I do have a conduct card for Dad that is where I got the details. It looks very much like the one you show, but was typed not printed. I did not know they were called conduct cards. Thanks for telling me that.

Kathy - Steve's daughter

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi Kathy. Just an idea. Have you checked to see if the 180 (CLXXX) Brigade Royal Field Artillery war diaries are at TNA Kew?

Hi Ulsterlad,

I haven't checked the TNA personally, but a researcher I paid to check for my Dad's records some years ago, before they were available on Ancestry did, and found nothing at that time. So much more has been released since and I'll certainly look into it.

Thanks

Kathy - Steve's Daughter

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...