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Remembered Today:

Listing of Great War Sites in the UK


Brian Curragh

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Alan - Thanks for those, please keep them coming.

Phil - I agree with David - if you are looking at UK Great War sites - let's keep them together

David - I will have a go at adding these new sites

Alan's posting of the Stanley Spencer memorial at Sandham also reminded me of Neville Lytton's murals at Balcombe, featured in "Not Forgotten"

Brian

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I have amended the initial post in this thread to contain the list of sites submitted to date.

Is there a way of pasting in a table format so the list is more user friendly?

Brian

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I've tried using a table with no luck, i ended up using print screen and cropping.

Did you get the email?

Neil

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Brian and David,

Mine is Forest Row Camp in East Sussex, plus officers that died from the surrounding houses etc.

All that remains is a monument, dedicated in 1926. The huts were removed around 1920 and the site flattened.

Today it is part of a golf course.

When I've polished my map up a bit, I'll post the link (that was the hardest part, had to email the URL to myself in the end) and you can judge for yourself if you want to include the camp site.

Phil

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I've tried using a table with no luck, i ended up using print screen and cropping.

Did you get the email?

Neil

Neil

I did thanks - that is a great piece of work

Phil - I will wait to see your link but if there's something there to see still, I don't see why we shouldn't add it to the list.

Regards

Brian

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>><<

Is there a way of pasting in a table format so the list is more user friendly?

Like this:

List of sites to date (24 Jan 09)

County _________Location ______Description

Bedfordshire .. Cardington ... Cardington Airship Works

Conwy ......... Abergele ..... Kinmel Camp

Durham ........ Hartlepool ... Heugh Gun Battery

East Sussex ... Forest Row ... Forest Row Camp memorial

Hampshire ..... Netley ....... Royal Victoria Military Hospital Chapel

Hampshire ..... Sandham ...... Stanley Spencer murals, Sandham Memorial Chapel

Hertfordshire . Berkhamstead . Kitcheners Field

Kent .......... Folkestone ... Harbour Station

North Yorkshire Colsterdale .. Colsterdale Camp

Nottinghamshire Kinoulton .... Vimy Ridge Farm

Somerset ...... Mells ........ Horner Memorial Chapel & Siegfried Sassoon's grave

Tyne & Wear ... Sunderland ... Hammerton House Red Cross Hospital

Tyne & Wear ... Sunderland ... Hylton Castle Camp

West Sussex ... Balcombe ..... Neville Lytton's murals, Balcombe Victory Hall

Wiltshire ..... Fovant ....... Fovant Badges

Wiltshire ..... Tidworth ..... Tidworth Barracks

?

If it is: Change typeface to Courier New (or other non-proportional typeface) and replace any double spaces with a suitable spacing character. Probably easier than going into html mode and creating an html table.

David

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I've added Forest Row Camp memorial, as I see you've already got it on the list. I'll add a description later.

Are the icons yours David, because I couldn't see them?

I'll leave you to change it to a suitable one.

Phil

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I've added Forest Row Camp memorial, as I see you've already got it on the list. I'll add a description later.

Are the icons yours David, because I couldn't see them?

I'll leave you to change it to a suitable one.

Phil

Phil,

Glad to see some-one else adding (reassures me that I have set it up correctly!).

When you are in Edit mode (clicking the Edit button in the top of the Left hand pane), you can click on the place name (or its icon in the map) and the detail box opens in Edit mode (over the position in the map), allowing you to add further detail (including links if you select Rich Text Mode) and to change the icon (by clicking on the icon and selecting an alternative - I'm using the Tent like icon for Camps).

When done, select OK in the place detail dialogue box, and then Save and Done in the list of places pane.

HTH

David

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I have added the three IWM sites with Great War Associations (London, Duxford, and Manchester) to our Google Map.

I have also hopefully replaced the Forest Row Camp marker than I accidentally dislodged when manipulating the map whilst in edit mode! I suggest that to avoid this happening again we pan and zoom in the map before going into Edit mode - and on each place-mark include an address to assist in putting things back if we do dislodge them. I have amended the instructions in post 16.

David

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Sites added to the map today:

Museums post-22880-1233102768.gif

Rotherham: York and Lancaster Regimental Museum

Dorset: Tank Museum, Bovington

London: National Army Museum

Lichfield: Staffordshire Regimental Museum

Chapels & Churches post-22880-1233103140.gif

Somerset: Mells Parish Church

Hampshire: Sandham Memorial Chapel

Hampshire: Royal Victoria Hospital, Netley

Other

Co Down: Helen's Tower, Bangor

Please feel free to add further sites (see instructions on earlier post - post 16). I have added some custom icons (see above). If they do not show when you select "add custom icons", you can pick up them up from the following locations:

Museums: post-22880-1233102768.gif http://lh3.ggpht.com/_bkklldXkb0w/SX78aSA_...z_u8/Museum.gif

Churches: post-22880-1233103140.gif http://lh5.ggpht.com/_bkklldXkb0w/SX-X5Q6o...11PM/Church.gif

Camps: post-22880-1233104287.gif http://lh5.ggpht.com/_bkklldXkb0w/SX8Dheb4...TCrlEM/Camp.gif

Gun batteries: post-22880-1233104333.gif http://lh5.ggpht.com/_bkklldXkb0w/SX8IoEfV...G9LVIko/Gun.gif

Hospitals: post-22880-1233104385.gif http://lh3.ggpht.com/_bkklldXkb0w/SX8KANqr...CY/Hospital.gif

Ports: post-22880-1233104445.gif http://lh4.ggpht.com/_bkklldXkb0w/SX8LMDwc...fv6TbA/Ship.gif

(Note that the Forum software abbreviates the links above, but the full link is behind the label, so right click and select "Copy Link Location" (in Firefox) or similar in other browsers.)

Site Usage:

I have added museums that have WW1 links; I am not sure if it was the intention to add "modern day" sites to the list. If the consensus is that museums should not be on the list (for fear of swamping it), they can be moved to another map. (One of the advantages of Google maps is that the "maps" are actually only overlays on maps or satellite photos, and as it is therefore possible to have multiple overlays showing at any one time, so we can split sites of interest across a number of "maps" without loss of functionality.)

We originally said we would exclude memorials (again because they are well documented elsewhere and might swamp other sites), to this I unilaterally added drill halls (for the same reason - they might go on a separate map?). Whilst the chapels above do contain memorials they also contain other WW1 connected artefacts (such as original grave markers).

David

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to this I unilaterally added drill halls (for the same reason - they might go on a separate map?

Where have you obtained your information on drill halls? Between us, Graeme and I have visited hundreds of drill halls and even more sites where we've found that the drill hall has been demolished. Forum members have helped, too.

Are you going to include sites where they were (in which case people might well find themselves in a car park or a supermarket) or just extant ones?

To give you an idea of numbers, Graeme has recorded over 3600 unit locations, which include drill stations. Some of these are now-unknown buildings (for example, a farmer's barn), some are extant buildings (eg schools, town halls, church halls, corn exchanges) and some are purpose-built premises which to all appearances are drill halls (eg Mountsorrel). Do you propose to highlight these?

Another problem is that drill halls may be simply recorded on the lines of there being a drill hall of X company in a town, with no address. Where we or others have visited them, or where we have investigated them in the library or elsewhere, so that we can confidently give the address, we have stated it and sourced the information. Many of these constitute mini-research projects in their own right and we haven't finished. In the absence of an exact address, there is potential for people to waste time visiting a town with no idea where to start looking, and many regimental museums are useless at knowing this sort of information.

While I think it's a very good idea to draw attention to these often-forgotten buildings, and I would hope that people would think of the Project and take photos or pass on updated information, I feel it's a rather more nebulous area than memorials or museums which are more fixed in the present urban landscape.

On a separate note, I would add a note of caution about counties' Historic Environment Records. Some of these are plain wrong. Some have been constructed from satellite maps by people who have never visited the site in question and who have only the most tenuous grasp of history. We found one which dated the First World War memorials to 1904 (not a typo). If there's any doubt, find separate corroboration. However, they are a very useful starting point for anyone who wishes to look round an area, because everything of note is supposed to be recorded. All counties should have one and I have a list of them all should anyone wish to see it.

Gwyn

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Gwyn

One of the initial decisions in trying to get this project going was to exclude war memorials & drill halls as the feeling was that they were already covered much more efficiently elsewhere (i.e. your site for drill halls) and that duplication of effort would be the result. Having said that, there is absolutely no reason why you cannot use the same methodology to set up on the same website a "drill hall" overlay that can sit next to the "Great War Sites in the UK" overlay - that way visitors to the site can switch on one or the other. To hold both sets of data in the same overlay would probably swamp the map display. If you want to proceed along this route, I am sure David can advise on how to set up the "Drill halls" overlay.

As for your point on existing vs. disappeared sites, the other basic principle was that there should be something physical to see. The disappeared sites could be added later but as you suggested , standing in a Tesco's car park does make the exercise slightly more intangible. If the "Drill Halls" overlay gets going, there's nothing to stop you showing existing halls in one colour and the sites of halls now gone in another.

Regards

Brian

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The exclusion of drill halls wasn't stated on the first page and I simply picked up on the recent reference to them, which was somewhat ambiguous to me as a first time reader of the idea.

I haven't the time to do any map making at the moment, I'm afraid. I can see its value for a future project.

As you say, where a drill hall is known to be extant and has been visited, there is or will be information on our website, which has still a vast amount of material to come.

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I confess I've been slow to contribute more than my one token suggestion (Tidworth Barracks) because I was struggling with some of the suggested technology and I would like to see how this project progresses. I would need quite some time to sort out the details that others are providing for their suggestions. But here's a basic list for Wiltshire:

Kiwi chalk hill badge, near Sling Barracks, Bulford

Garrison churches at Tidworth and Bulford

Australian Imperial Force hill badge, Codford

Pre-WWI "aeroplane sheds", Larkhill Camp (probably the only part of the camp that was used in WWI to be seen today, apart from cuttings through which the military railway ran)

Track bed and retaining wall of Fovant Military Railway (possibly on private land)

Balloon hangars, Rollestone Camp

Hangars on the site of RFC Yatesbury

Bustard Hotel - HQ of Lieutenant-General Edwin Alderson, commander of the First Canadian Contingent, 1914-15 - still a pub!

Remains of wireless station used to track Zeppelins and monitor wireless traffic, near (and on!) North Wilts Golf Club, near Devizes (hut, mounting blocks, bits of chain)

Significant numbers of war graves at Fovant, Codford, Sutton Veny, Durrington, Baverstock, Yatesbury and Tidworth.

WWI camp railway platform at Chisledon (not to be confused with the later camp station directly on the MSWJR line)

The former Le Marchant Barracks (Wiltshire Regiment depot), Devizes

Greenland(s) Farm, between Tilshead and Larkhill Camp (buildings used as artillery depot)

I could add the sites of various practice trenches, but remains of these can be hard to discern. The best in Wiltshire , and probably in Britain, are those on Beacon Hill, above Bulford (map reference 205442)

There are also many houses of various sizes that were were used as hospitals, notably Longleat, Wilton and Greenhill House, Sutton Veny, but I don't think there's any evidence of this to be seen. Buildings used for billeting are also probably outside the scope of this project.

Siegfried Sassoon lived at Heytesbury House, but after the war.

Charles Hamilton Sorley memorial signpost, Poulton Down, near Ogbourne St George, (map reference 209717)

There may be RFC buildings used in the war at Upavon, Netheravon and Old Sarum airfields.

I also know of several WWI buildings that were relocated after the war, but one is never sure if they're still standing.

And just outside Wiltshire, in Hampshire, original buildings of RFC Lopcombe Corner (in the fork of the A343 and A30)

Sorry this is a bit scanty, but it's the best I can do at the moment.

Many of these sites (and a few others) have been mentioned in the Forum over the years and a search (and some luck) may yield further information to members.

Moonraker

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The exclusion of drill halls wasn't stated on the first page and I simply picked up on the recent reference to them, which was somewhat ambiguous to me as a first time reader of the idea.

Gwyn

Sorry - we possibly hadn't made the exclusion of drill halls clear enough.

Regards

Brian

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Moonraker

Thank you, that's a great list. I will see how many of these I can locate & will add the relevant pins on the map. When you get the chance, have a look at the results and see if they are accurate. I will also add brief descriptive notes as available.

Regards

Brian

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Brian

Sorry the list was a bit superficial. Unusually for me, I had a lull in my activities today so I was able to compile the above off the top of my head.

Have you realised what you have taken on yet!?

Moonraker

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I have now added a link in the first post on this thread - this will take you to the Google Maps site that is accumulating the UK Great War sites submitted to date.

New sites can either be posted to this thread or can be added directly to the map by following David's instructions in Post #16.

Regards

Brian

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Have you realised what you have taken on yet!?

Moonraker

Quite possibly! But I still think it's a worthwhile exercise so let's give it a go.

Brian

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Brian

Sorry the list was a bit superficial. Unusually for me, I had a lull in my activities today so I was able to compile the above off the top of my head.

Have you realised what you have taken on yet!?

Moonraker

Such is the nature of Web 2.0 collaborative projects - for that is what this is! Brian made a suggestion, I suggested some technological solutions, then I put up a straw man so that we could see if one of those ideas worked and now we are getting suggestions for sites to go on the map. The early stages are always difficult because unless a few (Brian and Myself so far plus a few one-off contributors) keep the momentum going it does not work - but it is exhausting!

It can also cause confusion, have people feel that others are treading on their toes, and is very reliant on good-will. The project is "open" to anyone who knows about it and who acquires a (free) Google Account. So far it is only known to members of the GWF and in due course those who see GWF postings appear in Google (when that happens I think I may throw the switch that allows Google to directly index it - when it potentially becomes directly "open" to anyone). There is a danger that it might get spammed (I take occasional backups), that it might get taken in a totally different direction to Brian's original idea (if I am already doing that with the inclusion of museums, Brian is being very tolerant), but unless we let it take its own direction Brian and I will end up doing all the work.

Ideally others will see how easy it is to add locations and we will see the numbers of contributors and sites increase - 15 odd sites per county (if we all followed on from Moonraker's contributions for Wiltshire) would be quite a resource! My (specific) guidance notes are on post 16; relevant (but general) Google Help is also available.

Please feel free to PM me (or anyone else who appears to know what is happpening!), if you want further help (or you have scrambled something and want to get it unscrambled).

David

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Brian

Excellent idea and one that will take off I am sure. Not wishing to detract from your work but can I point out that Kinmel Camp is not in Abergele/Conwy but in Bodelwyddan/Denbighshire.

Someone has erroneously put the former on Wikipedia. It's true that Abergele is in Conwy County but the Camp is not in Abergele. It's in Bodelwyddan (I'm not technically minded enough to challenge it)

Here are a couple of links to support the latter.

http://clwydacf.org.uk/Files/Silver%20Exped%20menu.pdf

http://www.denbighshire.gov.uk/EC/place&am...92?OpenDocument

http://1914-1918.invisionzone.com/forums/i...showtopic=96084

Hywyn

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Brian

Excellent idea and one that will take off I am sure. Not wishing to detract from your work but can I point out that Kinmel Camp is not in Abergele/Conwy but in Bodelwyddan/Denbighshire.

Hywyn

Hywyn

I bow to your superior knowledge! (Teach me to rely on Wikipedia...). I'll change it.

Many thanks

Brian

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A rural development ("LEADER") group in Pembrokeshire has been working to produce a catalogue of military history sites in the county. The guide is being done settlement by settlement and whilst many sites are nineteenth century or WW2 there are some WW1 sites, e.g. the Royal Dockyard at Pembroke Dock, and the WW1 seaplane station at Fishguard.

The guide, which includes map references, can be downloaded from

http://www.planed.org.uk/Communities/sop_64.htm

Gwyn (a different one to earlier posts!)

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