bmac Posted 19 January , 2009 Share Posted 19 January , 2009 Can anyone tell me what a James Bomb was. Found in a report on a trench raid 25/26 June 1916 near La Boisselle in which five were used. Extract reads: "Thanks to a petrol bomb bursting the enemy was stopped which gave the officer of this party the opportunity of throwing a special ‘James’ bomb with good results." It's not an error in transcription as it comes from a typed report. Any help gratefully received. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Riley Posted 19 January , 2009 Share Posted 19 January , 2009 It maybe a typed report but, I suggest, it is unlikely to have been typed by the original author as typewriters were a fairly rare commodity. I suggest, therefore, that a transcription error is still possible. At the start of the war, I don't think that battalion sized units had their own typewriters and the system (the Stationery Section) did its best to limit their proliferation for some time (probably because of a shortage of mechanics to repair them, I suspect). I have a feeling that, in 1914, even brigades were not entitled to a typewriter; there is something about this in Paddy Griffith's book on tactical development 1916-1918. Typed battalion diaries seem to be something of a rarity in 1916 (not to be confused with those typed up post-war for the official historians) and the large majority of after-action reports that I have seen for the 55th Division in 1917 are hand-written. I would guess that it is probable that in 1916 the original report would be in manuscript so I would not rule out a 'misread'. However, I can imagine only one possible error (if it is an error); it seems rather late in the war for people to be cobbling together 'Jam Tin bombs' - but at least they share their first three letters with 'James'. Jamtin Bombs were certainly 'special' creations. I suppose Jamtin, Jam-tin or Jam tin could be sufficiently squiggled in soft pencil on the pages of a field notebook to become 'James' for a harrassed clerk typing by candlelight (maybe!). I have done a search on 'James Bomb' (I guess you will have done the same) and was stopped in my tracks by some spy character called James Bomb (is this a typo for Bond ?) and his 55000 internet references. Even when I got it down to 50 references by excluding 'spy', 'Moneypenny', 'Veuve Cliquot' and M (the last two got rid of a lot - only joking) and other such terms and including 'trench', I got no promising leads. Which unit was lobbing these? The petrol bomb sounds interesting; where these common? Jam tin for James seems a longshot; I also will be interested to hear of a more plausible explanation. Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Poilu Posted 20 January , 2009 Share Posted 20 January , 2009 Never heard of anything like a James bomb or similar or reference to any in a large number of grenades/ordnance books, would also be interested to find out more. If it was indeed a typo for Jam Tin grenades - run a serach for this - many detailed topics and pics in the past discussions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T8HANTS Posted 20 January , 2009 Share Posted 20 January , 2009 Did they ever put a name to the bomb made by a two gallon petrol tin with Stokes mortar rounds attached, used by throwing it into bunkers? Although I don't think you could throw it in the conventional sense. G Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Poilu Posted 20 January , 2009 Share Posted 20 January , 2009 The report is referring to the petrol bomb and the James bomb though - not the same thing: Thanks to a petrol bomb bursting the enemy was stopped which gave the officer of this party the opportunity of throwing a special ‘James’ bomb with good results. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmac Posted 20 January , 2009 Author Share Posted 20 January , 2009 Thanks for the thoughts so far. The reference is in a report on a raid carried out by the 26th Northumberland Fusiliers near La Boisselle on the night of the 25th/26th June 1916 which was found in III Corps Staffs' papers. A rather fuller quote is below: "The right bombing party met a lot of opposition and had to come back along the trench. Thanks to a petrol bomb bursting the enemy was stopped which gave the officer of this party the opportunity of throwing a special ‘James’ bomb with good results. This officer’s action held up the Germans and gave the party the opportunity to retire. The rifle party and covering parties threw what bombs they had from their position outside the trench. Three Germans are known to have been killed and there seems little doubt that their losses were considerable. The party was in the trench probably about 5 minutes and about 30 Mills bombs and 5 ‘James’ bombs were thrown." As to the Google search, yes, I went through the same process of eliminating the enormous number of references to the James Bomb game. Three MMs were awarded as a result of the raid. Apart from the officers, bayonet men and bombers there were also two carrying parties with the raid which is a bit odd to me. What would you need carrying parties for when the purpose was to check the wire and, if possible, snatch a prisoner? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Riley Posted 20 January , 2009 Share Posted 20 January , 2009 Apart from the officers, bayonet men and bombers there were also two carrying parties with the raid which is a bit odd to me. What would you need carrying parties for when the purpose was to check the wire and, if possible, snatch a prisoner? Carrying ladders for getting in and out of the trench? Small bridges were sometimes carried forward for obstacles such as streams and old or disused trenches. Material to put a block in the German trench but perhaps unlikely if they were only intending to be there for five minutes? If the intention was to snatch a prisoner, I would think that they must have gone prepared to get into a trench and, more importantly, to get out of it again. I am not sure that they could have relied on the Germans to have installed a convenient set of sortie steps into the front wall of their trench. Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squirrel Posted 20 January , 2009 Share Posted 20 January , 2009 carrying parties may have been carrying further supplies of grenades? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
centurion Posted 20 January , 2009 Share Posted 20 January , 2009 Given that they appear to have had a plentiful supply of Mills bombs (one thing that the carrying party might have been carrying) jam tin bombs would seem to have been superfluous. Four things stand out in the account - the word special when applied to this bomb (which would suggest not your common or garden tin of explosive with some nails), the fact that the petrol bomb gave the opportunity to throw one (suggesting either that it wasn't something you could do quickly or perhaps some illumination was needed), the fact that the bomb held up the enemy (which suggest that its effects were lasting) and the fact that only five were used. I too tried a search ( using 1914, 1915 etc as alternatives in the search and game as an exclusion clause gets rid of most of the references to that game) but found little except one piece of foreign language text that seemed to be referring to gas and smoke. I wonder if the special James Bomb might have been some form of gas canister or smoke bomb - phosphorous perhaps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmac Posted 20 January , 2009 Author Share Posted 20 January , 2009 I too wondered about a phosphorus bomb or smoke bomb of some sort. Searched on phosphorus, P Bomb/Grenade nothing useful to date. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squirrel Posted 20 January , 2009 Share Posted 20 January , 2009 Thermite? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
centurion Posted 20 January , 2009 Share Posted 20 January , 2009 Smoke bombs were certainly used to clear dug outs, cellars etc. "2nd Lieut. Brown discovered two Germans with a machine-gun busily firing through a hole in the wall. These he promptly despatched, and the gun being silenced, a loud chattering revealed the presence of a number of the enemy in the cellar beneath. Orders to come up not being obeyed, a smoke-bomb was thrown down and the platoon passed on to deal with the remaining houses." The James Motor Cycle company made grenades (being a sub contractor for the Mills No 5) I wonder if they made other munitions of their own design? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmac Posted 20 January , 2009 Author Share Posted 20 January , 2009 The James Motor Cycle company made grenades (being a sub contractor for the Mills No 5) I wonder if they made other munitions of their own design? Like the thinking! Sadly nothing comes up on Google (yet). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunner Bailey Posted 20 January , 2009 Share Posted 20 January , 2009 Here's a long shot. I've seen reference to the No 3 Mk1 Rifle grenade having the aditional title 'J Pattern'. This must mean something. There are many instances of No3's being hand thrown. Could this be a link? Could J be James? As the object of the raid was to snatch prisoners I can't think the James Bomb could have been some sort of improvised satchel charge, as that would probably kill everyone in a bunker. I did think of the James Cycle Co Mills but have not heard of them making anything else. Most of the Birmingham grenade firms stuck to grenades though I have seen a recent reference to FREMO (Frederick Mountford) - making artillery fuzes. Gunner Bailey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
centurion Posted 20 January , 2009 Share Posted 20 January , 2009 As the object of the raid was to snatch prisoners I can't think the James Bomb could have been some sort of improvised satchel charge, as that would probably kill everyone in a bunker. If the enemy are in their bunkers and won't come up you aren't going to make one of them a prisoner anyway and you would certainly want to dissuade anyone emerging as you were leaving and opening fire as you were trying to pick your way back through the enemy wire when you would be particularly vulnerable Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truthergw Posted 20 January , 2009 Share Posted 20 January , 2009 If the original typescript has James in inverted commas, this may imply a non-standard name. The people who carried it had made it up themselves? Was there an RE officer involved called James, perhaps? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmac Posted 20 January , 2009 Author Share Posted 20 January , 2009 If the original typescript has James in inverted commas, this may imply a non-standard name. The people who carried it had made it up themselves? Was there an RE officer involved called James, perhaps? An all Northumberland Fusiliers party I'm afraid. The RE were off blowing up some knife rests on the other side of the village!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
centurion Posted 20 January , 2009 Share Posted 20 January , 2009 An all Northumberland Fusiliers party I'm afraid. The RE were off blowing up some knife rests on the other side of the village!! But an RE officer could have been involved in making up the bombs before hand Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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