dave ricketts Posted 19 January , 2009 Share Posted 19 January , 2009 I have come across a Scotsman who enlisted in the RE Quarrying Companies at Paisley in early 1917. He was 43 years old (i.e. not subject to the Military Service Act). His trade was Quarry Foreman. Despite this he was enlisted as a Pioneer (rather than a Sapper) and as noted his enrolement form was stamped "Political". He was remustered Sapper in short order. Has anyone else noted examples of "Political" stampings and can anyone throw any further light on this? Thanks, Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staffsyeoman Posted 19 January , 2009 Share Posted 19 January , 2009 The only thing that comes to mind (and I haven't seen one of these stampings before) is that he may have had some connection to "Red Clydeside" and the workers' activism/anti-war protests, and therefore noted by the police? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris_Baker Posted 19 January , 2009 Share Posted 19 January , 2009 I have seen many. All Scots. I believe Phil is right but have never seen the precise legal definition of what "Political" meant in practice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MelPack Posted 19 January , 2009 Share Posted 19 January , 2009 Dave As a matter of interest is Enrollment on the enlistment form struck out with 'Record of Service' entered in pen? Regards Mel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donny Anderson Posted 20 January , 2009 Share Posted 20 January , 2009 I have wondered about this as well, Mel, see the page below, this man's occupation is listed as "Rivetter". Donny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Bulloch Posted 20 January , 2009 Share Posted 20 January , 2009 I am just wondering if perhaps the two men in the examples were political activists that had been arrested, and given a choice by the court of the army time or jail time. Just a thought. Cheers Rob. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 20 January , 2009 Share Posted 20 January , 2009 Funnily enough, I was looking for a service record for another pal the other day. Thomas Colgan. Found different Thomas Colgan Royal Scots 18439. The first page of his service record is also stamped POLITICAL It mentions that while on active service he refused to follow an order. You may find more from that particular record. He was perhaps a bit ' BOLSHIE ' Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squirrel Posted 20 January , 2009 Share Posted 20 January , 2009 Rob, as the Attestation is completed and signed by a JP rather than a Recruiting Officer I reckon you may be right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truthergw Posted 20 January , 2009 Share Posted 20 January , 2009 I think something along those lines may have been going on. What I find strange is that there is a stamp for it. Why not simply write it in like the rest of the form. As if it was meant to stand out for some reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eltoro1960 Posted 20 January , 2009 Share Posted 20 January , 2009 I think the Justice of the Peace angle could be right, I have seen several of the local miners whose papers have political on them, these were usually signed by Alex Bishop the gas works manager or Mungo Mackay, the pit Manager, both were JP's. From memory the one with an recruiting Sgt had nothing on them, I will check and get back to you. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MelPack Posted 20 January , 2009 Share Posted 20 January , 2009 Just a speculative idea but wasn't recruitment normally associated with the payment of a bounty to the recruiter? If a JP directly recruited couldn't the 'Political' stamp simply mean a waiver of the bounty? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
west coast Posted 21 January , 2009 Share Posted 21 January , 2009 on my g/dads attestation form in the section where political is stamped on the above form, my g/dads is, name= w.gorman p.p. corps= r,s, what do the letters p.p. and r,s, stand for. [r,s, -recruiting sgt??]. ps, the last line on these forms state that if any alteration is required a justice of the peace be required to make it under section 8 [6] army act. cheers mike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eltoro1960 Posted 21 January , 2009 Share Posted 21 January , 2009 I think the P.P. will be that the person is signing for someone else , it from the latin "per procurationem" = by proxy. R.S. if it referring to the Corps / Regiment may relate to the Royal Scots, did your Grandad sign on in the UK or in Australia? John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasmor58 Posted 21 January , 2009 Share Posted 21 January , 2009 The term political could be a reference to a man who had served in Spain during the Spanish Civil War. I have read that such men had difficulty in joining the military when World War 2 came along. Jasmor58 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasmor58 Posted 21 January , 2009 Share Posted 21 January , 2009 As the date is 1917, quite likely to be Red Clydesiders. manyb of them went bto spain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave ricketts Posted 22 January , 2009 Author Share Posted 22 January , 2009 Dave As a matter of interest is Enrollment on the enlistment form struck out with 'Record of Service' entered in pen? Regards Mel Mel, I will need to check and get back to you on this. What are you thinking about? I have seen lots of these without "Political" stamps however. I not sure I go with the JP/Bounty angles personally. Surely most enlistees in 1916 and 1917 had to join up under the Military Service Acts so no need to pay bounties? Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truthergw Posted 22 January , 2009 Share Posted 22 January , 2009 The term political could be a reference to a man who had served in Spain during the Spanish Civil War. I have read that such men had difficulty in joining the military when World War 2 came along. Jasmor58 Spanish Civil War was fought in 1930s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MelPack Posted 22 January , 2009 Share Posted 22 January , 2009 I will need to check and get back to you on this. What are you thinking about? I have seen lots of these without "Political" stamps however. Dave I have seen a good number of conscientious objectors' enlistment papers with enrollment struck through and 'record of service' entered in pen. I was wondering that if 'political' was being used in the context of being 'undesirable' that the papers followed the same pattern. I take your point about conscription but attestation was still required. The reason for raising the speculative idea was that if the stamp appears on 1914 papers then these would pre-date the Munitions Act and the first dispute on Red Clydeside in 1915. Regards Mel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
west coast Posted 23 January , 2009 Share Posted 23 January , 2009 I think the P.P. will be that the person is signing for someone else , it from the latin "per procurationem" = by proxy. R.S. if it referring to the Corps / Regiment may relate to the Royal Scots, did your Grandad sign on in the UK or in Australia? John john, sorry for the delay in replying, problem with pc. my grandad rejoined in 1914 to his old regt, royal dublin fusiliers in dublin. cheers , mike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave ricketts Posted 23 January , 2009 Author Share Posted 23 January , 2009 Dave As a matter of interest is Enrollment on the enlistment form struck out with 'Record of Service' entered in pen? Regards Mel Mel, Having checked - no it isn't. The enrollment was signed off by the Recruiting Officer - Paisley and NOT a JP. Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gnr.ktrha Posted 26 January , 2009 Share Posted 26 January , 2009 Hello, I have come across this stamp a couple of times. I wonder if there is a way of finding out if they were 'Red Clydesiders'. Were there lists of arrests or active members published in the Glasgow newspapers, or does anyone know if there are any records of the political parties they may have belonged to? It would be interesting to get to the bottom of it. Off hand, can anyone think of any confirmed Red Clydsiders, who enlisted into the army. If you can, we could check there service papers and see if they have the same stamp. Regards, Stewart Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gnr.ktrha Posted 26 January , 2009 Share Posted 26 January , 2009 Hello, Just been checking one of the ones i have come across. It's the papers of James Brown, a Clerk from Glasgow who enlisted into the Royal Scots. he joined as Short Service. His papers are stamped 'Political' and his date of enlistment is given as 22 November 1915! Regards, Stewart Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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