findabetterole Posted 26 February , 2009 Share Posted 26 February , 2009 Chris... reference post #44, Thats a grand old lady from 1917 you've got, but its spoilt by one piont... the horns for the rearsight surround are still to WW2 spec = cut-off! Have you considered replacing the top handguards to bring the old gal back to original spec? Seph. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thGordons Posted 26 February , 2009 Share Posted 26 February , 2009 Chris... reference post #44, Thats a grand old lady from 1917 you've got, but its spoilt by one piont... the horns for the rearsight surround are still to WW2 spec = cut-off! Have you considered replacing the top handguards to bring the old gal back to spec? Seph. Actually I think this is a point of some dispute. The "horns" were prone to breakage and ofren removed as you suggest in WWII (I have a couple of handguards which appear to have been manufactured without them)- but I have seen some photographic evidence this was done in WWI also as a simple expedient. I go back and forth on the replacement of things like this, I have some replacement handguards which would match nicely and do the trick but I am torn - am I (by restoring to its "original" condition) "concealing" another important stage in its service? As I have complete originial condition rifles I do not lose too much sleep over this! and have so far left it "as found". If I was going for original I would also need to replace the foresight protector with one that is blued rather than with the grey/green finish of WWII Aussie ones..... I have no qualms about restoring "sporterized" rifles where I know that the changes were non military in origin but on the others I wonder, especially if a rifle has markings to indicate FTR etc.... Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
findabetterole Posted 26 February , 2009 Share Posted 26 February , 2009 Chris.. It was just a point in passing. Whats OK for some, is upsetting to others.. no problem! I'd be interested to see the pics (if you have them on file) of the SMLE's being used during WW1 without rearsight handguard horns! Seph Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thGordons Posted 26 February , 2009 Share Posted 26 February , 2009 Chris.. It was just a point in passing. Whats OK for some, is upsetting to others.. no problem! I'd be interested to see the pics (if you have them on file) of the SMLE's being used during WW1 without rearsight handguard horns! Seph Hey Seph I do not own the pics - they were in an acquaintance's collection and I do not have copies - IIRC they appeared to show a stack of rifles at a Depot/Collection point - several of which were missing the horns. I will see if I can track the bloke down and get a copy. As a general point I would agree with you that this is clearly a WWII practice and seems near universal on later Indian owned rifles. I have been working with some Indian produced stocks recently and the wood seems far more brittle (In fact I droped a piece and it cracked badly - actually shattered might be more appropriate - which was rather annoying!) than walnut which is probably the explanation for this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
findabetterole Posted 26 February , 2009 Share Posted 26 February , 2009 A good point you make there in reference to the wood used for Ishapore SMLE's. In connection, I would gather that this could be the main reason [reinforcement] for the notorious 'Ishapore Screw' just forward of the magazine housing on the mainstock! Thanks for the heads up on the pics.. much apreciated. Seph Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tinhat47 Posted 26 February , 2009 Share Posted 26 February , 2009 What would you suggest for a bit of cleaning of the furniture? I've heard stuff about boiled linseed oil, but I really know nothing at all about these things. My new SMLE apparently hasn't been given the TLC it's deserved in some time and is a bit grimy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evan9201 Posted 27 February , 2009 Share Posted 27 February , 2009 I guess I will play 1-Lithgow 1920 SMLE FTR in 1956 2- BSA 1918 SMLE looks to be FTR even though no markings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evan9201 Posted 27 February , 2009 Share Posted 27 February , 2009 What would you suggest for a bit of cleaning of the furniture? I've heard stuff about boiled linseed oil, but I really know nothing at all about these things. My new SMLE apparently hasn't been given the TLC it's deserved in some time and is a bit grimy. Boiled linseed oil is the traditional rifle finish for the British. Disassemble the stock from the rifle. Lightly scrub the stock with a green scrub pad soaked with Orderless Mineral Spirits. Apply the first few coats with BLO cut 50/50 with mineral spirits to let it soak into the wood. wipe excess the BLO mix off after a half an hour. The last few coats hand rub BLO into the stock. Visit this web site for all your info needs www.surplusrifle.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
findabetterole Posted 27 February , 2009 Share Posted 27 February , 2009 I'll agree with Enfield-Guy. Numerous coats, wipe of excess, let dry between coats. Enfield-Guy.. would you mind fitting your SMLE webbing rifle sling correctly please? Also, have you considered refitting the stacking swivel? Incidentally, the webbing sling fitted to your SMLE, is not a rifle sling at all... Its a WW2 Bren-Gun sling (less the two detachable fitment hooks). I'm extremely pleased to see so many SMLE's as live firers, especially here in the USA. In the past six months of Gunshows, I must have handled well over 200. The majority of those unfortunatelly (due to my searching for WW1 dated examples) have been WW2 and post. If I can find a live firer with the same specifications as my Deact (still in storage in the UK), I'll be one very happy chappie! Seph Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tinhat47 Posted 27 February , 2009 Share Posted 27 February , 2009 What are the differences between the SMLE sling and the Bren sling? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thGordons Posted 27 February , 2009 Share Posted 27 February , 2009 What are the differences between the SMLE sling and the Bren sling? Length primarily. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tinhat47 Posted 27 February , 2009 Share Posted 27 February , 2009 Gotcha. Looks like I'll have to get around to breaking down my SMLE for a nice cleaning when I have a day off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evan9201 Posted 27 February , 2009 Share Posted 27 February , 2009 The sling is a Danish contract sling. I have a repro leather sling for the lithgow and 1918. I will post some pictures in the future. The aussie forestock is getting repaied so I will post the picture when I get it back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
findabetterole Posted 27 February , 2009 Share Posted 27 February , 2009 For the benefit of Matt, Enfield guy... and anyone else who does not know, here are some pics of the Bren-gun Webbing Sling in its complete format, and of it in use. The basic SMLE Webbing Rifle Sling (I'm sure TonyE can confirm this) is approx between 40 to 43.inches in length, where as that for the bren-gun is considerabley longer. Could you confirm the length for us please Enfield guy? Moderators.. this is for identification and illustrating the sling and its use only. I personally have no wish to discuss the weapon.... it not being an appropriate subject for the forum. Seph Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evan9201 Posted 27 February , 2009 Share Posted 27 February , 2009 The sling is 55 inches long. I have a sling for my no4 mk1 Enfield that looks similar to the Bren sling in your post. When I order some parts from Springfield sporters I will order the correct piling swivel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tinhat47 Posted 27 February , 2009 Share Posted 27 February , 2009 Measured from horns to horns, mine is 45 inches exactly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
findabetterole Posted 28 February , 2009 Share Posted 28 February , 2009 45.inch is OK. I don't think you'll find any which are longer than that, and I did give an approx length. Seph Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thGordons Posted 28 February , 2009 Share Posted 28 February , 2009 What would you suggest for a bit of cleaning of the furniture? I've heard stuff about boiled linseed oil, but I really know nothing at all about these things. My new SMLE apparently hasn't been given the TLC it's deserved in some time and is a bit grimy. Matt, Just a word of caution - the cleaning directions provided are good although go easy on the scrubbing... but please be careful with the rags etc you use with the BLO. Oil soaked rags can (especially if scrunched up and compressed) heat up to the point at which they spontaneously combust. There are warnings about this and instructions on dealing with steel wool and rags soaked in linseed oil on the retail container for the BLO. These should be heeded. I once unthinkingly, stuffed a rag I had been using for wiping down a stock inside the cavity where the magazine and action fits - I came back a couple of hours later to check the finish and recoat and the rag was really very hot! I am not sure it would actually have caught fire but it was hot enough to teach me a lesson. Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tinhat47 Posted 28 February , 2009 Share Posted 28 February , 2009 I guess completely off topic, but what's the proper way to dispose of oil-soaked rags like that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete1052 Posted 28 February , 2009 Share Posted 28 February , 2009 Many current formulations of boiled linseed oil contain varnish-like additives that impart a finish that is more shiny than some people prefer. I use the stuff but relatively infrequently to prevent a shine from building up. Old-fashioned raw linseed oil without the additives can be found at art supply stores but it is expensive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evan9201 Posted 28 February , 2009 Share Posted 28 February , 2009 I guess completely off topic, but what's the proper way to dispose of oil-soaked rags like that? Get a old useless Tupperware container. Fill it with water and immerse the rags in the water and cover. I would store them outside just to be safe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trenchtrotter Posted 28 February , 2009 Share Posted 28 February , 2009 I have two deac 1917 SMLEs, one Enfield, one BSA. Both have repairs to the butt. The Enfield butt has the bottom inch completely replaced. The quality of the work is absolutely fantastic. The dovetailed section that has been added is a near colour match and the join is seamless. Was it common to repair butts in such a way? I would have thought it easier to just replace with another, there must have been huge surpluses. I guess the repair was nessecetated through years of slamming the rifle down on parade grounds? Anyone care to comment? Thanks TT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thGordons Posted 28 February , 2009 Share Posted 28 February , 2009 Spliced, dovetailed or inletted repairs on the heel of butt or other places are relatively common in my experience. The quality of the woodworking is universally excellent. One common "repair" (some are also done as "preventive measures") is to inlett two thin diagonal strips into the top of the rear-handguard to prevent splits where the pins that hold the spring clip in place fit. As Seph and I were discussing above, it appears to me that the wood used in Indian rifles may well have been more brittle and prone to cracking than walnut, beech or coachwood and as a result there are often more repairs on Indian No1s (also Indian owned No4s). It may also have been that the weapons had longer service lives there - necessitating more repairs. Quite a few of my rifles have such repairs - I'll see if I can post a few pics. I also have a P14 which was modified at Weedon in WWII (WRS) and has had the volley sight base removed and a piece of wood substituted for it - a very neat job indeed. Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trenchtrotter Posted 28 February , 2009 Share Posted 28 February , 2009 Chris, Thanks for your reply. Look forward to the images and will post some of mine in return. I also note such diagonal strips on mine as you have mentioned. What suprises me is the price of de acs (SMLEs) nowadays. £350 seems the average and some ask more. The quality has deteriorated also. Arudal have what appears another nice 1916 example for sale at £395 ( no connection to them) Regards TT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thGordons Posted 28 February , 2009 Share Posted 28 February , 2009 Here is the former location of the volley sight on my WRS Pattern 14. And the diagonal strips on an SMLE upper handguard. and here is something to make people wince! - uncommon in the UK but very common in the US, a 1918 BSA (force matched - renumbered - bolt but otherwise matching) which has had the receiver drilled and a scope base mounted In this instance everything else was left untouched and as I was able to get it for about the price of a used stock set.... I am actually trying to decide what to do - I suspect I will hold this until I find another "sporterized" rifle which needs a stock set but is otherwise unchanged (ie not drilled and tapped etc)- and switch the furniture leaving me with a mil-spec rifle and a fully "sporterized" rifle which I can then sell. Alternatively I could remove the site base leaving this rifle together but with holes drilled in it. Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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