Lee Enfield!

[Tinhat47]

The serial number is "I 9380" and is stamped on the receiver, bolt handle, nose cap, rear sight and forestock. There doesn't appear to be anything struck out or restamped. The buttstock, which I believe to be a replacement, doesn't have the serial number on it, which might explain the ID disk. The buttstock does have a bunch of stamps on it that are all Greek to me!

The round cocking piece doesn't have a serial number on it but has a stamp with a crown with what appears to be "E6" below it and either a "B" or another "6" below that. I thought it first it said "ER," but it doesn't look like an R at all.

The part of the barrel that peeks out of the handguard under the rear sight says "HV" with "SC" below it. I'll try and remove the handguard and see what it says underneath.

I removed the rear handguard and the barrel too is stamped with "I 9380" and a whole bunch of other markings, ".303 2.22'," "T8 1/2," "TGMS," among them on the right side and more stamps and " '18" on the left side.

Oh yeah, and I ordered Charles Stratton's SMLE book last night

[4thGordons]

Matt;

Excellent stuff - all matching numbers in the right range makes your rifle a very nice example indeed.

Slight variations in colour might not mean that the buttstock was replaced it might just mean a slight variation in colour!

HV = High Velocity (ie MkVII ammunition)

SC = Small Cone (Short throat)

The stamps you describe are all the standard proofing marks although TGMS has me puzzled (but I am away from my refs)

the '18 on the barrel is probably the date and I think the other marks are enfield production/inspection stamps.

Chris

[Tinhat47]

Upon further review, it may actually say "TCNS" ...

Here's a detail of what looks like a repair on the buttstock

And a very strange-shaped stamp on the underside of the buttstock, which I've outlined in black to make it easier to see:

[4thGordons]

Ahhh no, I think you will find it is TONS (as in pressure)

Yes that looks like a well executed arsenal repair. Quite common - used to stop splits/replace chunks missing, does not in my view detract from the rifle.

Indian stocks often have these as the timber used appears to be a bit brittle, these repairs often show considerable skill in inletting new parts.

[Tinhat47]

Aha! Thanks!

[TonyE]

I removed the rear handguard and the barrel too is stamped with "I 9380" and a whole bunch of other markings, ".303 2.22'," "T8 1/2," "TGMS," among them on the right side and more stamps and " '18" on the left side.

These are British commercial proof marks, exactly what one would expect on a surplus UK rifle. Any firearm passing through the UK is required by law to be proofed.

The explanation of the markings is:

.303 - obviously calibre.

2.22" - case length.

18 1/2 Tons - proof load pressure.

Regards

TonyE

[4thGordons]

By way of a cautionary illustration of the point I made above about cleaning:

This is what I found when I removed the forend from a "shooter" I purchased recently. The gunk is mostly "cosmolene" a protective grease/jelly with which rifles in storage are often liberally coated. After a time it sets quite hard and is messy to remove.

(This is an Indian No1 MkIII*)

[Tinhat47]

Yeah, I'm definitely planning on taking it to an experienced gunsmith to have it thoroughly checked out before I ever try to load it with anything.

Cosmoline is the bane of my existence.

[robert rayner]

Im on my third No 1 mkIII restoration and have found that Simple Green cleaner does wonders on cosmolene. For really stubborn depositis a liberal dosing with liquid BrakeKleen cuts it fast but can be hard on the hands, eyes and lungs. Both will bleach gun wood so take care if you want the finish to remain as found. I've used the simple green to remove the heavy oil deposits one finds where the buttstock fits into the socket. The bleaching can be reversed by using Pilkingtons red military finish stain. I have a 1915 Lithgow MKIII, a 1916 Enfield MK III*, and a 1918 Enfield III*. The Lithgow numbers all match but the two enfields both have different numbers on the sight leaf. None are import stamped which is getting harder to find here in the states. I readily agree that aquiring the SMLE is addictive but more interesting because of the maker and model variations. I've been extremely fortunate to be able to aquire these for reasonable cost which allows for more to be spent bringing them back to a good used military condition.

[4thGordons]

Here's an interesting variation for you (just acquired)

It started life as a LONDON SMALL ARMS No1MkIII in 1910 and at some time entered New Zealand ownership (see stamps) converted (apparently in the 1920s) to a No1 MkIV* .22" trainer and then subsequently modified into whatever this is. As you can see it has a cut down and reshaped stock (with finger grooves) a fabricated foresight protector and an aperture rear sight mounted on the receiver. I am not aware of any official modification fitting this pattern but if it is a home-done job it was done a long time ago and done well. I know NZ had a number of variants of enfields that were unique so I don' t know if this was a cadet or miniature range rifle or someone's home made hobby-gun. I'd be interested in suggestions or observations.

[robert rayner]

I've not seen anything quite like this one. I've seen modifications done to military trainers to qualify for club sponsored shooting events where caliber, barrel length and sights have to comply to a standard. These types are usually modified to rigid standards as far as configuration so one does encounter more than one example. This piece doesn't appear to match any configuration I'm familiar with. The conversion looks to be well done but not, I think, professionally. The rear sight wing looks to me to be a homemade solution to a problem encountered in the field. The rifle looks to be fairly light and well handling. Perhaps a thrifty solution for the need/want of a small game rifle? Is the caliber still .22? This is all supposition on my part because I am stumped. Hope you can get more information. Please post any new tidbits. Regards, Bob.

[Tinhat47]

Got a nice Great War-manufactured pullthrough and oil bottle from IMA. The oiler was made by H.J. & Co. of Birmingham and has a a nice BSA "B" inspector's mark on it. Perfect for my BSA SMLE.

[4thGordons]

Added another today - filling a gap in the collection!

This is a "peddled scheme" rifle. (note the different wrist stamps and the SSA mark on rear of receiver). The wrist does not display a manufacturer (Enfield BSA LSA etc) Peddled scheme rifles were assembled from components produced at dispersed subcontracting sites. You can see the Enfield inspection stamp above the SSA. (Standard Small Arms) Most components are SSA marked.

Bolt, Reciever, Barrel & Rear sight serial numbers match (foresight protector does not)

Wood is apparently replacement (forestock appears to be beech?), and is immaculate - and buttplate is not an enfield one and will be replaced. Bore is absolutely mint.

Also came with a nice (but incorrect) US leather sling which is going to be transferred to my M1917.

[Tinhat47]

Beautiful!

[TonyE]

A very nice rifle, Chris.

Just to add to Chris's remarks about the Peddled Scheme, SSA were the Standard Small Arms Company set up in 1914 to produce L-Es, but by mid 1915 it was clear they were never going to be able to make complete rifles. Their contract was changed to only making the body, bolt, nose cap and trigger guard and the rifles were assembled by the major makers.

Eventually they were taken into government ownership as the National Rifle Factory and most of the complete rifles were assembled at RSAF Enfield.

Regards

TonyE

[RangeRover]

Another New Zealand-marked No. 2 Mk. IV* Mine started out as a 1910 Enfield No. 1 Mk. III, but other than the addition of the new barrel and rear sight, was unaltered.

I've added a photo of the left side of the rifle to show the intact volley sights, and a closeup of the front LES sight and the RHS of the butt socket to show the maker's marks. These include the New Zealand issue markings and rack number stamps which are not far off 4thGordon's rifle it looks like! I've had someone tell me the /11 (stroked out on our rifles) may mean they were originally issued to the Wellington Rifles, but I'd love to hear from someone who might be able to shed more light on that.

I hope to add a Great War-era Canadian-marked SMLE in the original .303 soon, but as with some of the other posters on this thread...I acknowledge it may take a while to come across this grail.

[4thGordons]

Welcome to the Forum...and thanks for posting that - very nice - and very interesting that the marks are so similar.

I have not seen a Mk IV* with the volley sight retained before. My other ones appear to have new wood.

Canadian marked No1s do seem pretty uncommon - although I am not really sure why, presumably they existed in large numbers. I have one and will dig it out for photos.

once again Welcome!

Chris

[RangeRover]

Thanks for the welcome, and I should have said in my first post how valuable this site has been already in increasing the level of my knowledge. I've been exploring and have no doubt I'll be pestering folks for answers to my questions.

I look forward to seeing your Canadian No. 1.

Welcome to the Forum...and thanks for posting that - very nice - and very interesting that the marks are so similar.

I have not seen a Mk IV* with the volley sight retained before. My other ones appear to have new wood.

Canadian marked No1s do seem pretty uncommon - although I am not really sure why, presumably they existed in large numbers. I have one and will dig it out for photos.

once again Welcome!

Chris

[4thGordons]

I look forward to seeing your Canadian No. 1.

I dug it out. 1917 Enfield produced. The foresight protector does not match (and given the parkerized grey/green finish is probably of WWII Australian vintage) otherwise an all correct Enfield built No1 MkIII* produced in 1917.

Here is a general view:

and a close up of the rather poorly struck Canadian stamp (C around a broad arrow)

[RangeRover]

Very nice and in great shape too it appears. A very nice piece of history there.

I hope one crosses my path some day. Thanks for sharing.

I dug it out. 1917 Enfield produced. The foresight protector does not match (and given the parkerized grey/green finish is probably of WWII Australian vintage) otherwise an all correct Enfield built No1 MkIII* produced in 1917.

[Gunner Bailey]

This thread is sheer joy. Please keep it going!

John

[priv]

Well, after 5 years I am still hunting for the "right" SMLE. I have missed out on a couple of crackers by a matter of hours in one case - Matching No's Volley Sights etc.

Just renewed my FAC and there is still the blank space awaiting an SMLE - maybe this will be my year. I am not being too choosy, but some fo the absolute garbage you see sold by dealers is amazing. I think the best course if action is to continue sitting in the wings and getting first sniff at any that may be for sale form otfellow shooters.

All I want is a nice honest complete shooter and not to have to pay the prices charged by a well known Bisley dealer, or for that matter endure their poor service and rudeness - oh to roll back 20 years when it was a proper shop ! The other year I was desperate for some .303 ammunition for a meeting the following week. I called them up - yes we have some - so drove over there (some 45/50 minutes) - oh no mate we havent ogt any - causing me some annoyance as you can imagine. I ask - "anywhere else where i could get some as I am desperate and this is the only chance i have to go shopping prior to the meeting ?" Answer no nowhere round here." Pretty bloomin p(*&*(d off as you can imagine.

Sat outside having a smoke and contemplating what the hell to do - when a fellow poorly served customer came out and said "try the NRA armoury" - which I had completely forgotten about and had in fact never purchased from there. Went in there, barely 20 paces form my first port of call and they had loads. I think this explains why I am not prepared to go to the obvious dealer for a SMLE, I will no longer contribute to their business. Their prices are also optimistic to say the least, something they could justify when they were at the top of their game.

If any memebr had one or knows of one for sale in the South East - please let me know. I am waiting on a possible form a shooter nearby, but that is undecided at the moment.

[t1418w]

Hi Graham

Have a look at www.deactivated-guns.co.uk. There are 2 on their site. Also if these are not to your licking contact them & they will look out for one for you. Found them very reasonable & very pleased with the one they obtained for me.

Tony

[Peter Zieminski]

Well, after 5 years I am still hunting for the "right" SMLE. I have missed out on a couple of crackers by a matter of hours in one case - Matching No's Volley Sights etc.

Just renewed my FAC and there is still the blank space awaiting an SMLE - maybe this will be my year. I am not being too choosy, but some fo the absolute garbage you see sold by dealers is amazing. I think the best course if action is to continue sitting in the wings and getting first sniff at any that may be for sale form otfellow shooters.

All I want is a nice honest complete shooter and not to have to pay the prices charged by a well known Bisley dealer, or for that matter endure their poor service and rudeness - oh to roll back 20 years when it was a proper shop ! The other year I was desperate for some .303 ammunition for a meeting the following week. I called them up - yes we have some - so drove over there (some 45/50 minutes) - oh no mate we havent ogt any - causing me some annoyance as you can imagine. I ask - "anywhere else where i could get some as I am desperate and this is the only chance i have to go shopping prior to the meeting ?" Answer no nowhere round here." Pretty bloomin p(*&*(d off as you can imagine.

Sat outside having a smoke and contemplating what the hell to do - when a fellow poorly served customer came out and said "try the NRA armoury" - which I had completely forgotten about and had in fact never purchased from there. Went in there, barely 20 paces form my first port of call and they had loads. I think this explains why I am not prepared to go to the obvious dealer for a SMLE, I will no longer contribute to their business. Their prices are also optimistic to say the least, something they could justify when they were at the top of their game.

If any memebr had one or knows of one for sale in the South East - please let me know. I am waiting on a possible form a shooter nearby, but that is undecided at the moment.

Hi

Try contacting Seth Ellett through enquiries@rearlugs.com - Seth is selling part of his collection and there are a number of SMLE and some with matching numbers and volley sights etc.

[4thGordons]

A couple more offerings from the depths of the safe...

An 1896 LE I (the barrel has been shortened by about an inch and recrowned - I assume for target shooting - dustcover is missing from the bolt but otherwise correct, including early mag with chain link to trigger-guard. The shortening is not noticeable until you try and affix a bayonet!

And quite an early BSA rifle - a 1912 No1 MkIII apparently FTR'd to MkIII* standard at some point but not marked such anywhere - but volley sites have disappeared. Otherwise nicely matching. Unit disc is stamped with a single L (and a broad arrow on reverse)