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The Great War (1914-1918) Forum

size of a British division 1914-15


Moonraker

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This is a very basic question, but, honestly, I have tried to find this out from various websites and books, but without much luck.

What was the size of a full British division in September 1914, please? I've come across a figure of 18,000 men.

Presumably whatever it was, it hadn't changed much by February 1915?

I've also seen a figure of 12,000 at the time of the Battle of the Somme in 1916, but can imagine the discrepancy may be explained by re-organisation(s) of the British Army.

Moonraker

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I have details of the 3rd and 5th divisions in August 1914 and they have 12 battalions each. I generally think of a full battalion as having around 1,200 men, so a figure of 14,400 would seem reasonable. There would also be attached units of field artillery.

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Ian,

I think it would be a fortunate battalion to have 1200 men. The establishment was 1001 (and six pipers for batalions so entitled) if I recall. They might still have had on strength those detached to duties in brigade, division, corps, training schools etc. With people on leave, sick and on courses as well as unreplaced casualties, they migh be lucky to have a fighting strength of 80% of establishment and in action the nucleus would be withdrawn as well. As I understand, the numbers for the additional units such as (as you mentioned) the integral artillery brigades (as opposed to the unattached Army artillery units), the Field Companies RE, the Divisional Ammunition columns and the Field Ambulances as well as the ASC units were all integral to the divisions's establishment and this was then expanded to take in Machine Gun Companies and Trench Mortar Batteries.

At a more reasonable time of day, I will get out my 1914 establishment table! In 1914, I think battalions took overseas their first line reinforcements who were left at base and brought up as required. I think that they amounted to another 5% or so from memory.

Ian

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Presumably whatever it was, it hadn't changed much by February 1915?

Seem to recall changes to infantry brigades in late '14 or early '15 whereby they comprised 5 battalions rather than the previous 4 by the introduction to the territorial battalions. Not sure of the impact of this on the total division strength though.

Peter

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Ian,

I think it would be a fortunate battalion to have 1200 men.

While not exactly a figure plucked out of thin air, I admit that it was a figure plucked from my befuddled brain. Like you, I thought a 'basic' battalion to be around 1,000 but, with the 'extras', would equal the 1,200 I quoted. I would be interested to see any actual numbers you may have.

Ian

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And there was I being diffident about asking a question the answer to which I thought would be common knowledge! But thanks to the two Ians for having a stab at the answer.

I suggested the strength of 18,000 men becaause this was the size of the First Canadian Division. including artillery, when it left for France in February 1915. When it arrived on Salisbury Plain in October 1914, the First Canadian Contingent, as it then was, numbered in excess of 30,500 men, some of whose units were "attached" to it, rather than part of it. The Contingent was re-organised several times to bring it more in to line with a British division, so I was guessing that the 18,000 was roughly the standard size.

Moonraker

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Hello Moonraker

The following ar War Establishments figures, which represent the authorised strength rather than an actual fighting strength.

Aug 1914: 18,073 all ranks

Aug 1915: 19,770 (a Pioneer battalion and certain other small units had been added)

Sep 1916: 19,372

Apr 1917: 18,825

Feb 1918: 15,957 (after infantry brigades were reduced to three battalions each)

Oct 1918: 16,035.

The nominal strength of an infantry battalion was about 1,000 all ranks. Thus the infantry strength of a division was about 12,000 until Feb 18, and 9,000 thereafter. This does not include the Pioneer battalion, which was of roughly the same size as an ordinary infantry battalion.

The actual strength of a division depended on how recently it had received reinforcements since it was last involved in action. A figure for 12,000 including artillery and other units might well be typical.

In 1915, many if not most had a fifth infantry battalion, of Territorials, attached to them on a temporary basis to gain front-line experience. These had mostly been withdrawn by the end of that year, when the TF Divisions were re-assembled on roughly their peacetime structure. The extra battalions are NOT oincluded in the above figures. (Peter - thanks for the reminder on this point!)

Ron

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Ron: thanks, just the info I wanted. I see there's another thread currently running about the Ulster Division which refers to it comprising 18,000 men.

Moonraker

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Just to add to it - part of a table from a book I was reading.....

As at October 1914 the BEF consisted of (arms units):

Infantry Division 18,073 men 5,592 animals 11 in theatre

Cavalry Division 9,269 men 9,815 animals 5 in theatre

*Infantry Brigade 4,055 men 247 animals 1 in theatre

*Cavalry Brigade 1,718 men 1,873 animals 1 in theatre

+Heavy Battery 198 men 144 animals 11 in theatre

+Field Artillery

Brigade 795 men 748 animals 31 in theatre

+Horse Artillery

Brigade 681 men 779 animals 15 in theatre

(I can only assume that * were independent brigades and + were Corps and Army Troops)

British Logistics on the Western Front Ian Malcolm Brown Greenwood 1998 page 67

(Brown drew on the Official History and various WO papers)

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Hi, i know i am taking this a bit off topic here but i was wondering whether anybody knows of a final casualty of maybe the South Staffordshire's, i know there were some pretty heavy casualties in the Great war, it would be interesting to know my local regiment, so if anybody knows a good and informative website that would be really helpful.

Thanks chaps!!

Best wishes and kind regards,

Dan

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Hi, i know i am taking this a bit off topic here but i was wondering whether anybody knows of a final casualty of maybe the South Staffordshire's, i know there were some pretty heavy casualties in the Great war, so if anybody knows a good and informative website that would be really helpful.

Thanks chaps!!

Best wishes and kind regards,

Dan

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Hi, i know i am taking this a bit off topic here but i was wondering whether anybody knows of a final casualty of maybe the South Staffordshire's, i know there were some pretty heavy casualties in the Great war, it would be interesting to know my local regiment, so if anybody knows a good and informative website that would be really helpful.

Thanks chaps!!

Best wishes and kind regards,

Dan

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Hello Carl

The infantry division total includses three infantry brigades at 4055 men each, three field artillery brigadesat 795 men each, a field artillery (howitzer) brigade of 755 men, and a heavy artillery battery and AC of 198 men, as well as other units. See the thread "Simple explanation..." elsewhere in this section.

The cavalry division, at the figures quoted which actually apply to August 1914, contained four cavalry brigades and two horse artillery brigades of two batteries each. This was modified, by October, when two more such divisions had been formed, there were three cav bdes, and one horse art bde of three batts, in each cav div.

Ron

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Hello Dan

E A Jaems's book British Regiments 1914-18 gives estimated total casualties (killed, wounded, missing and prisoners) for each infantry regiiment. The South Staffs figure is 6,360.

The proportion of killed (including missing presumed dead, an died as PoWs) to the total is usually about one in three.

Ron

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