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The Great War (1914-1918) Forum

Cap Military or ?


MACRAE
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Can any one tell what this cap is Military or Police or perhaps Prison service.

Dan

post-2583-1231790714.jpg

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Dan

There may be a few other options too,say,Government service such as Messenger,Chauffeur, Commissionaire/doorkeeper etc.

When I joined the Civil Service in the 1950s hats like this were all over the place,but mostly black then.

Sotonmate

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Dan

There may be a few other options too,say,Government service such as Messenger,Chauffeur, Commissionaire/doorkeeper etc.

When I joined the Civil Service in the 1950s hats like this were all over the place,but mostly black then.

Sotonmate

Well yes and no why the WO2 badge I thought perhaps naval Royal Mail Ship ?

Dan

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Dan

RMS would be Merchant Navy but probably not a grey hat. It occurred to me also that an early RAF Warrant Officer might wear it.

Sotonmate

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Dan

RMS would be Merchant Navy but probably not a grey hat. It occurred to me also that an early RAF Warrant Officer might wear it.

Sotonmate

Ermmm my bad photography its not a grey hat its dark blue

Dan

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The corded 'chinstrap' does not look like anything I have seen for UK armed services; more like a chauffeur's or the smarter type of security officer?

Is there any maker's name inside?

D

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Ermmm my bad photography its not a grey hat its dark blue

Dan

took another pic .

Dan

post-2583-1231799841.jpg

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The corded 'chinstrap' does not look like anything I have seen for UK armed services; more like a chauffeur's or the smarter type of security officer?

Is there any maker's name inside?

D

A J G Man Aldershot 1920 on the sweat band under it it has the crows foot and WD 1921

Dan

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It may be a Chief Officer Prison Service.

Is the cap band oak leaves?

Mick

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I was talking to the Postal museum in Bath today and he seems to think its post office rifles due to the wo2 badge he recalls something re this kind of badge on caps . New one to me but rifle brigade was suggested by a one long term collector personally i would say no but I am still open to suggestions.

Dan

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The reason I asked about the cap band being a pattern of oakleaves, the prison service cap I was issued with when i joined the service had an oakleaf band, not sure whether that is exclusive to that organisation though.

Mick

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Oak leaf bands in black mohair were commonly worn on police caps throughout the empire as well. The crown badge suggests that it is an official organisation- people were much more careful about the use of official government insignia in those days, although some crowns were worn by private organisations such as the Corps of Commissionaires, above company badges by Cunard Line officers and on some early airline badges . This type of badge was worn by senior police officers in forces like the Queensland Police force and I have also seen some in the UK. This helped to distinguish them from the rank and file who wore a metal badge. I don't think, on this basis it is a WO2 Rank badge- the use of 'rank' badges on headgear was not common in the British Commonwealth tradition.The use of the cords rather than a strap is interesting and makes me think of a more civilian service. Have you thought of something like Indian Railways or another railway owned by a government, or perhaps Customs/Excise, Harbours or immigration -particularly given the association with the Merchant Navy cap?

Might be worht running this on the Navy part of the forum there was a discussion of Merchant Navy uniforms and RN uniforms there a few months ago.

Greg

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Just looking again at the postings the War Department mark is odd if it is prison, police etc. I seem to recollect there was a War Department Constabulary which guarded buildings and bases- I guess a progenitor of the Minstry of Defence Police of today It was started in 1925. Might it be possible that it adopted a standard pattern of cap made already?

Greg

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Hi Greg

A good idea customs and excise. I am running out of options but who knows some one some where knows what this is.

Dan

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I dont know when they first started wearing them but uniformed members of HM Customs and Excise wear a badge very similar to a Naval officers but with a portcullis replacing the anchor.

P.B.

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Look at the two men in centre from the school of musketry 1905 one is wearing a identical cap to the one I have

Dan

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I don't realy think so. I do not see a badge the same as yours and they look to have officers leather chinstraps. I'm sure it will be pinned down, but if it was British Army of the 1900's, I would have thought someone would have hit on it by now... but we shall see.

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Dan

NOT Customs and Excise ! pbrydon is right with his facts !

Sotonmate

(C&E-retired)

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I don't realy think so. I do not see a badge the same as yours and they look to have officers leather chinstraps. I'm sure it will be pinned down, but if it was British Army of the 1900's, I would have thought someone would have hit on it by now... but we shall see.

I did not say that the badge on my cap was there. The other picture that i failed to take a picture of has the same cap with NO BADGE !!!!.

Dan

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Well, I see dark caps and yes, yours is a dark cap. If the other picture showed more detail and you are happy it is the same type of cap then well done. Sorry if I failed to grasp your use of the word identical. Best regards, Paul.

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Well, I see dark caps and yes, yours is a dark cap. If the other picture showed more detail and you are happy it is the same type of cap then well done. Sorry if I failed to grasp your use of the word identical. Best regards, Paul.

Hi Paul

No apoligies are required I was just saying these caps was the same. I wish I had taken a picture of the other one it was very clear that it was the same kind of cap :blush: .

Dan

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